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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:52 am 
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Your math regarding W sources seems correct; however Radiant Flames is not the only thing I want White for; I want Nahiri on curve, who needs 11 sources. Since I'm running Wilds already, I don't want the UR taplands, which is why the 12th source is free enough (Clifftop Retreat or Praerie Stream over the respective Basic).
Cast Out gives you two other cards you want to be able to cast on curve in an emergency.

The cards that spring to mind for Spray are Scrounger, Dread Wanderer and Haunted Dead. Not that many, but against these you want exactly Magma Spray. The third point of damage I found rather unimportant since you have other cards to deal with bigger threats.
Also keep in mind I'm running 2 less big exile effects than you (Commit>Cast Out).
As stated, I could see cutting the fourth Magma Spray, but I would never go below 3 for Ladder play, and I'd replace it with bigger removal.

Enchant removal is the main reason for Commit>Cast Out, I agree. The Memory thing coming up 1 in 30 games seems about right; but then it has higher impact than just cycling. (And yes, I have hardcast Memory if I was ahead on board but out of counterspells).

The deck only generates Energy as long as Tower is in play (before, you get some incidental energy off Glimmer, Hubs and maybe Lightning, but that's 1-2 activations at best).
Jace's floor is higher than Tower IMO; if you see a boardstate his bounce can't handle he digs towards Radiant Flames.

Pull is a big card, yes; but the deck lacks these high impact cards a bit. Instead of multiple copies of Gearhulks/PWs, this deck has to rely on these big draw effects.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:17 am 
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Thanks for the comments and discussion. It looks like we are both discussing very minute details, which betray a slightly different perception of the deck :

You want an answer to everything (so do I, within reason), and you are a bit worried about closing the game, so you prefer a card like Jace, and big draw effects to more tweaky cards (guaranteed power over situational power, like the tower or 3 point removal).
My take on it is that this deck runs 2 virtual copies of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, so you will eventually win the game, as long as you can stay alive early on and in the early midgame. Sure there's a handful of cards in duels that beat Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, but you run counterspells for those :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:40 am 
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I would post my version of Jeski fun police but honestly I like Modulo's better. I modified a version that won me several games on KOTH but I still consider it his deck. Kudos to Modulo and I will have to try your version as well Rabble.

I will toss one of my creations in for the best control deck ring (I do wonder if it's truly finished/can be improved.. open to suggestions).

Cruel Esper control:

Instant/Sorcery (26):
3 x Fatal Push
3 x Censor
2 x Pull From Tomorrow
2 x Essence Scatter
3 x Grasp of Darkness
2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Broken Concentration
2 x Languish
2 x Never // Return
2 x Confirm Suspicions
2 x Commit // Memory

Enchantments (4)
3 x Cast out
1 x Cruel Reality

Walkers (3):
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Creature (1)
1 x Torrential Gearhulk

Lands (26):
4 x Swamp
1 x Plains
4 x Island
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Isolated Chapel
4 x Evolving Wilds
1 x Submerged Boneyard


I don't have a sb, maybe I will get to figuring that out but I imagine more sweepers / Anguished unmakings / Kefnet / 3 unsubs / Oath of lilliana / Lilliana TLH / Gideon

I liked running unsub main but decided to break down and run the gearhulk instead. I may need to put the 1x unsub back in and remove a pull for the hulk. I haven't had much for quality opponents to test the deck.

One experiment I was looking at was running more edict effects for hexproof but decided gearhulk + Cruel should be good nuff for 60 cards.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:55 am 
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Very interesting list; though I think it poses an interesting question.
With you omitting Anguished Unmaking, I wonder whether it's worth it to just forgo the White splash and play straight-up Dimir. The biggest problem might be the lack of exile effects, but maybe, just maybe we can get away with Kalitas and Return. Though I guess we'd have to run 1-2 Unsubs to stop Skysovereign; if only...

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:11 am 
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Modulo wrote:
Very interesting list; though I think it poses an interesting question.
With you omitting Anguished Unmaking, I wonder whether it's worth it to just forgo the White splash and play straight-up Dimir. The biggest problem might be the lack of exile effects, but maybe, just maybe we can get away with Kalitas and Return. Though I guess we'd have to run 1-2 Unsubs to stop Skysovereign; if only...

White splash gives access to cast out and a win con in sorin. Cast out is our exile that hits everything along with return but no self harm that anguish brings. It's also card selection that im not aifrad to cycle if i need a land. While i dont want cast out removed i would rather lose one than cruel reality so they do act as enchant hate magnets. Sorins +1 is brutal when it hits an aftermath card. I experimented with rags // riches for more aftermath but i wasnt comfortable losing languish for it. It doesnt seem better than never either. Sorin can also keep you in the game with his -x and is just one more way to say no to a pw. So overall i think the :w: is worth it but no :w::w: cards like im not trying to bring in Beefslab AoZ.

I really liked having unsub in the deck but wanted to try adding the gearhulk and I dont feel unsub is better than the counters or even censor. Its just a really nice quasi negate or soft removal here. Yes that HoD aftermath card would be perfect.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Forgot to mention that Shambling Vents really do a lot for the deck. They can put in that extra lethal damage and help recover your life total once you stabilize. I generally won't activate them unless my opponent is tapped out or I need my opponent to expend mana to deal with it to open a window for something else.

Not saying strait Dimir control would be terrible but I think Anguished unmaking isn't the only reason you splash :w:.

After making this post the other night I decided to bring the deck out for some more testing losing only 1 out of 10 games (I had a terrible case mana drought that game). One game was with a new friend I had made, the salt was so real I don't think we are friends anymore. He quit mid game like most opponents, but also abruptly dropped out of the party after I countered a big :g: creature.

I have to admit I enjoy the taste of salty tears and this deck delivers them in buckets.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
As promised, here's the build:

Inciter Energy RDW
Spoiler


Taking the deck for a spin :D
I will report shortly

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:01 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
As promised, here's the build:

Inciter Energy RDW
Spoiler


Taking the deck for a spin :D
I will report shortly


How'd it go?

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:28 am 
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So far its 5-2 against good decks (all of them R36-40) so its ok, but I find that sometimes it needs more power, if you dont get the inciters on T1 sometimes your t2 t3 plays dont affect the board as much as you would like. The energy theme has worked fine to fuel the Hellions, The embermaw its great when there is nothing else to cast and it has closed a game or two but on a board that didn´t really needed him, so I think I rather cast 2 creatures on t5 instead of him.

I think these are the soft spots
4 x Thriving Grubs
2 x Aether Chaser
2 x Embermaw Hellion

I will play a few more games and provide more insights. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:02 pm 
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T2 hasted 3/2 Grub is pretty good imo.
Embermaw Hellions are to use when you've cast everything else and have a considerable board, that's why you can wait to get to 5 mana and not cast them on curve. They work kind of like the Insults, making a favourable board presence simply overwhelming.
The deck is all about the inciters, so if you don't draw them in your openning hand, play them as soon as you draw them for Explosive power.
Without the inciters, it can play like a standard Rdw deck, but it loses some kick, especially the 3 cards you mention, but if you happen to have a Lathnu Hellion... Cast that 1st and use the Grub and Chaser energy to keep feeding it.
That's how I play the deck and I get crazy win-rates with it.
Don't be afraid to mulligan a slow hand with no inciters.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:43 pm 
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I think Glorybringer is better on the 5cmc spot, maybe 2x Expedite for the Aether Chaser so we can provide more reliable haste, also I did not mention earlier but I think Galvanic Bombardment might work better than the Temper´s, but I will make some more runs before I start playing with the original build.

Which do you think are the less synergistic spots?
On a side note, I think RDW should run Sunscorched Desert on a regular basis. I know I have included it with good results.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:58 pm 
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On a side note, I think RDW should run Sunscorched Desert on a regular basis. I know I have included it with good results.


I'd disagree here. Mono-Red is a deck that is very colour-heavy and needs to be able to keep 2-land hands. While many hands are fine with Mountain+Mountain or even Mountain+Looming Spires, Mountain+Sunscorched Desert may have to be a ship because of the inability to cast 2 spells a turn (1-drop+Shock, for example).
Ramunap Red can forgo that because Sunscorched Deserts ideally aren't worth 1, but 3 points of damage. We don't have that sac outlet, and we have a better land to be worth 1 or even more damage.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:33 pm 
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If you got, lets say 4 Sunscorched Desert and 2 Hanweir Battlements you can still put 18 mountains on a 24 land deck, that gives you an 87% chances you got on T3 and 82% on T2.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:44 pm 
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If you got, lets say 4 Sunscorched Desert and 2 Hanweir Battlements you can still put 18 mountains on a 24 land deck, that gives you an 87% chances you got on T3 and 82% on T2.


IMO Rdw doesn't really want 24 Lands. I'm stretching it with 23 in this build and that's because I'm running 4 and 5-drops. When Rdw floods its usually a loss. That's mainly due to the lack of a good fireball x spell and the fact that it tends to be a lower curve aggro deck and not mid-range.
I'm with Modulo on this one. Especially if you run Battlements, you run the risk of having 1 :r: source and the the rest colorless, which would limit you to 1 spell per turn, not to mention the :r::r: costs... The main advantage of going mono is for smooth, consistent mana. Give that up and there's no reason to play mono. Looming Spires usually does 1 extra damage too, so it ends up being a better option.

Running hubs in a mono-red energy might actually work.

On another note, Fiery Temper over galvanic: hits face, kills copters (The most played card in Duels) on the first hit and works well with the Copter. Unfortunately, neither Firecraft or Collective Defiance kill copters, so that leaves Temper and Harnessed Lightning as the best anti-Copter spells.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Cucho, I'm now 10-0 with There Will Be Blood.

Me like.



Also, Rabble, I printed off your list and hope to try it tomorrow night. Thanks for sharing the list.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:57 am 
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Nice streak Barney!

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Well Cucho I’m afraid I’ve had to retire There Will Be Blood. Final record is 33-4. I had really frustrating back to back losses to Temur Mill and Oregon v Control after keeping two landers, ugh. The deck had two different 13-0 win streaks at some point

Thanks for the fun deck. I tear it up with a tear.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:42 am 
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All good things comes to an end, happy to provide some fun buddy, I'm playing with tokens and thopters ATM and they are a blast.
We could reignite this thread with some good old decks.

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Rabble, I’m afraid your Jeskai Control only went 13-5 for me so I deleted it. In my defence, I hate playing Control. Thanks for the build! I pulled a 6-0 streak once

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 Post subject: Re: The Final 30
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:33 pm 
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ok Barno... this pile is 5-0 on the top of the iOs ladder, feel free to test it... on your holydays :smirk:
-1/-1 Counters

Creature(26)
4 x Festering Mummy
2 x Dread Wanderer
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
2 x Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
3 x Exemplar of Strength
2 x Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
2 x Plague Belcher
3 x Defiant Greatmaw
1 x Rhonas the Indomitable
2 x Bone Picker
3 x Crocodile of the Crossing

Instant(5)
3 x Fatal Push
2 x Grasp of Darkness

Enchantment(2)
2 x Nest of Scarabs

Planeswalker(1)
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope

Artifact(4)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Key to the City

Land(22)
7 x Swamp
7 x Forest
2 x Hissing Quagmire
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Foul Orchard
2 x Westvale Abbey

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 74a827aba1

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

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