It is currently Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:47 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Which is the best Rakdos Aggro decklist?
Poll ended at Wed May 24, 2017 7:23 am
Black as Night, Faster than a Shadow 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Gabrosin 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
The old brutal raw power 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
AKH Rakdos Vehicles 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Scuderia Ferrari 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Raggros 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Hell is Where the Heart is 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Hellbent madness all in! 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
Rakdocide 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Madness of Rakdos 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 17
Total voters : 10
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:55 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Aug 05, 2016
Posts: 1118
Congrats to DJ0045, winner of this spike round getting votes by 6 out of 10 voters :party:
It was funny to try some good decks for one round, i think we can maybe do it again at the beginning of next season. It conflicts with the upcoming tournaments, but maybe we can start this earlier after the release and i hope it was useful to someone for the tournaments (it would be because of the control fest).
Next round will start after 2 or 3 days, so the submission time will be between the second half of the first round and the first half of the second round of the tourneys. The theme will be related to Amonkhet...

_________________
Why so serious? Let's put a smile on that face.

My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8WdNm ... mA6v3zuwoA
Deckbuilding contest: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17763


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:47 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 9786
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Congrats DJ!! Loved that deck

Modulo getting only one vote (from me!) is a travesty and I think Sjoks deck deserves more love

Good job newcomers Cucho and Red Acuta getting 2nd place. Lové Cuchos deck

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:17 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 24, 2017
Posts: 1206
Location: Cucho Lambreta#13992
Congratulations DJ I still have to test your deck xD!

This info is cool and I like seeing it, but I wonder how much it really matters with Duels RNG? Like I know mathematically my deck should be running around 22 land. But 19 has been working despite that. I don't have hundreds of games in so maybe it's just been some crazy luck, but maybe the RNG is defective in that way. Recall the GB snake deck that was runner up in the last Showdown - it ran 19 lands with 4 of those being Evolving Wilds - everyone made fun of the fact its mana base was criminally low, but it won its way to 2nd place out of some 30 decks in the tourney.


You are right, that recommendation does not take into consideration -as far as I know- is at what point of the match you have to have your lands, for example the Hellbent Madness with 19 lands really needs the 3 land drop to finish the game but not on the 3rd turn necessarily you can still put pressure with tons of 1 and 2 drops, but you really have to drop that land on turn 5. So that kind of struggles with this recommendation

Image

Here is a different approach I found on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMuIezb ... nm&index=6

Calculator
http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/h ... etric.aspx

If you don´t like to watch that video here is the resume.

Population size : Cards on deck
Number of successes in population: Number of lands
Sample size: number of cards you draw/ 7+turn in which you NEEED the land drop magic number
Number of successes in sample (x) = Land drop magic number in this case 3
-----
so we put in the numbers and we get this:

For 19 lands
Image
that is a 81% rate of success on getting the 3 land drop on turn 5 and 86% on turn 6 (different calculation not attached)

For 20 lands
Image
that´s 85% rate of success on getting the 3 land drop on turn 5 and 89% on turn 6 (different calculation not attached)

What do you guys think of this?
how do you chose the number of lands on your decks?

PS: Barney I will never grow tired of reading that you love my deck! :V

_________________
:planeswalker:


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:05 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 08, 2016
Posts: 762
Location: Central U.S.
awesome! so if I need to hit 3 drop every game (over 95%), what is the suggestion?
What if I want to hit 4 lands by turn 4 with over 95%?
With a free mulligan, we can say 85% I guess? rather than 95%.

_________________
Free 2 play Magic Arena for casual fun.
Building the best deck.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:07 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 08, 2016
Posts: 762
Location: Central U.S.
I ran the calculator. 25 lands gives exactly 95% to hit 3 land drops by turn 3.
I probably have some great maths or deckbuilding instinct. or I played too many games. It's like experienced constructor gets some incredibly subtle "golden ratio" work done without having to learn architect lessons.

_________________
Free 2 play Magic Arena for casual fun.
Building the best deck.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:28 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 06, 2014
Posts: 6035
Identity: ItsreallyDJ0045
Preferred Pronoun Set: I'm male, lol!
Hey thanks guys! Sorry I threw some inefficiencies into the deck prior to this contest that hurt the build slightly. Glad it was still good enough to attract some votes. I'm not sure the best deck won, but I'll take it all the same. I can't wait for the next one!

Thanks also to everyone that tested the decks, you guys rock!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:35 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 9786
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
The best deck did not win. One of the best builders did though, and that's what's important.

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:58 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 06, 2014
Posts: 6035
Identity: ItsreallyDJ0045
Preferred Pronoun Set: I'm male, lol!
The best deck did not win. One of the best builders did though, and that's what's important.


It never does BB, at least not in terms of pure win percentages.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:20 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 18, 2016
Posts: 2061
Location: Anyway the wind blows
Identity: doesnt really matter
Preferred Pronoun Set: to me
I think the best deck won. Vehicle versions were more stable than hellbent/madness versions. The 'living in the edge' feeling of hellbent/madness versions is way more fun for me, but they lack the resiliency of vehicle versions and if they can't win around T5 then they're prob not winning the game. They kick butt all over the ladder, but that's way less competitive than a tourney (face a good deal of opponents who don't cast their first spell until T3-4) - especially on xbone.

If taking one of these lists to tourney and my primary goal is to place as high as possible, I'd run a vehicle version (personally would take hellbent tho because fun). WWs list is very good, but the Harvesters in DJs list push it to the top imo and got my vote. I wanted to put in a vote for hellbent too, but ran out of time for an elimination round.

_________________
Updated Decklists


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:23 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 9786
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I'd really love to see some good analysis of DJ's deck versus WW's Old Brutal. I really feel the latter is the better build:

I prefer Bomat to Ballista (it's faster and I can potentially get more gas)/
DJ's Glint-Sleeves are awesome but a little slow and they make terrible pilots.
WW is playing a Key to the City which is a card I've grown to absolutely love and get more cards with Bomat.
WW is playing Pia which strong players love to abuse.
To TIMH's point, DJ is playing Harvesters but I think WW's Hellions are way better (especially with Key)
Now, here's a big one: WW is playing 4 Fiery Temper as opposed to DJ's 3 Fatal Push and 2 Harassed Lightning and 1 Cut/Ribbons. The Fiery Temper can get triggered by Key to the city and Bomat and Hazoret and Copter (especially Copter in my experience). This is the KEY difference in my games with the two. DJ's deck has very little burn but tons of removal. The fact that Temper can go face has been HUGE in my games with WW's deck.
DJ's deck has two Glorybringers which are awesome but with WW's deck, the game is over by then.

I love both decks to death, but MAN is WW's deck ever more my speed (only slightly). The burn is huge. Bomat and Pia add all sorts of interesting tactical possibilities to the deck that I can abuse (if I'm having a good night).

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:54 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 06, 2014
Posts: 6035
Identity: ItsreallyDJ0045
Preferred Pronoun Set: I'm male, lol!
Well I won't argue too much with that BB, because I too have played something akin to WW's deck to great success over the seasons. I totally disagree on Key to the City, and I'm not a huge fan of Bomat, but I've certainly played that deck, and can confirm that it is very good - especially discard outlets for Fiery Temper - YUMMMZ Y'ALL! I think you may remember me asking you if you thought Bomat was the better option - over Walking Ballista - back when I first came up with the Rakdos deck, and you actually convinced me to stick with Ballista, so at least at one point you thought the opposite of what you're currently saying.

The big killer for me was the inclusion of the new dragon in my deck, which I was certain would be an upgrade, and now I'm not so sure anymore. I think it's not that the card isn't good, I think instead that the card just isn't going to work in an low CMC aggro deck, and we already have a better finisher with Flagship. The dragon just isn't needed, and it certainly isn't needed with flagship as well. I should have stuck with the old vampire, or switched over the P&K - I think I mentioned this earlier, but I'll admit to it now, if not.

I think TIMH is right though, I firmly believe vehicles are the best deck in Rakdos, and while mine may not be perfect, it's the right framework. I would definitely chose my type of Rakdos deck for a tournament (perhaps slightly edited, but still), and I'm fairly sure it would perform extremely well if I did - better than the Mardu decks did for example. I just think the all around consistency is there (and consistency above all else is the reason I do not include Fiery Tempers), the stability is there, and the win percent is there. It's a deck that has to be answered to win the tournament, whether it would be the winning deck or not is uncertain.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:56 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 28, 2015
Posts: 4825
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: uhhhhh
DJ0045 wrote:
The best deck did not win. One of the best builders did though, and that's what's important.


It never does BB, at least not in terms of pure win percentages.

Eh, Barney's system is flawed, as it's based on a smallish sample and subject to what decks he runs into.

Your deck was definitely one of the two most solid builds, in my opinion, which is why it got my vote.

_________________
KLD Season King of the Hill Winner.
EMN Season King of the Hill Winner.

The one true King of NGA Magic Duels on Xbox One.

You want some? Come get some. You don't like me? Bite me.

Day 1,000 of the never-ending Vert monarchy.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16077

Magic's a simple game, 2 people take turns playing cards and in the end Divinevert wins 2-0...


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:02 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 28, 2015
Posts: 4825
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: uhhhhh
I prefer Bomat to Ballista (it's faster and I can potentially get more gas)/


These really don't compete for the same space in the deck, as one is a 1-drop and the other is typically about a 4-drop. I know you hate everything that isn't pure aggro af, but DJ's deck has necessary hedges that make it much more consistent vs. other good decks.

Like, if you wanted a real analysis of their deck strengths, a win vs. a rank 30+ should count for the equivalent of about 5 wins vs. someone sub-10.

Take Esper for example. I can easily pilot it to 20 or 30 straight wins without much thought, but if I get a bad draw or a bad matchup, and I could have a night where I go 4-3 or something. It's not so perfectly smooth and you cannot control for the matchups you face in a small sample. I appreciate your efforts actually going out and playing all these decks, but going 0-1 doesn't mean a deck is necessarily worse than a deck that went 13-1, it just means it ran into that "1" alot earlier than the other deck did.

Also, FWIW, I suspect DJ wins the mirror vs. WW's deck.

_________________
KLD Season King of the Hill Winner.
EMN Season King of the Hill Winner.

The one true King of NGA Magic Duels on Xbox One.

You want some? Come get some. You don't like me? Bite me.

Day 1,000 of the never-ending Vert monarchy.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16077

Magic's a simple game, 2 people take turns playing cards and in the end Divinevert wins 2-0...


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:12 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 9786
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
mirrors are totally meaningless tho. I take both to the ladder, fairly, and compare the result. It's a flawed system for sure but it's the best I can do with 10 different decks cuz otherwise I'd have to playtest for a month.

DJ's deck losing to mill in the first round is hilarious and humiliating (for me as well, btw). I'm going to be playing Old Brutal for a long time and if it makes it as long as DJ's did, then we'll have a decent basis of comparison. Anyway, neither deck were my favourite two in the end anyway.

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:17 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 28, 2015
Posts: 4825
Identity: Male
Preferred Pronoun Set: uhhhhh
mirrors are totally meaningless tho. I take both to the ladder, fairly, and compare the result. It's a flawed system for sure but it's the best I can do with 10 different decks cuz otherwise I'd have to playtest for a month.

DJ's deck losing to mill in the first round is hilarious and humiliating (for me as well, btw). I'm going to be playing Old Brutal for a long time and if it makes it as long as DJ's did, then we'll have a decent basis of comparison. Anyway, neither deck were my favourite two in the end anyway.


My votes were DJ's and Red Acuta's build. My analysis was looking at the list, critiquing the list in my head, and then eliminating the 5 that were clearly the worst. Then I tried to figure what decks are truly competitive at higher levels. This was also done in my head.

The process took about 15 minutes and is as close to a perfect system as there is.

_________________
KLD Season King of the Hill Winner.
EMN Season King of the Hill Winner.

The one true King of NGA Magic Duels on Xbox One.

You want some? Come get some. You don't like me? Bite me.

Day 1,000 of the never-ending Vert monarchy.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16077

Magic's a simple game, 2 people take turns playing cards and in the end Divinevert wins 2-0...


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:26 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 9786
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
that sounds BORING. I like my method of using empirical evidence populated by total random garbage, lol

anyway my method is more about being entertaining mostly for me (and hopefully to some others that are rooting for their deck to make it deep).

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:37 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 18, 2016
Posts: 2061
Location: Anyway the wind blows
Identity: doesnt really matter
Preferred Pronoun Set: to me
I'd really love to see some good analysis of DJ's deck versus WW's Old Brutal. I really feel the latter is the better build:

I prefer Bomat to Ballista (it's faster and I can potentially get more gas)/
DJ's Glint-Sleeves are awesome but a little slow and they make terrible pilots.
WW is playing a Key to the City which is a card I've grown to absolutely love and get more cards with Bomat.
WW is playing Pia which strong players love to abuse.
To TIMH's point, DJ is playing Harvesters but I think WW's Hellions are way better (especially with Key)
Now, here's a big one: WW is playing 4 Fiery Temper as opposed to DJ's 3 Fatal Push and 2 Harassed Lightning and 1 Cut/Ribbons. The Fiery Temper can get triggered by Key to the city and Bomat and Hazoret and Copter (especially Copter in my experience). This is the KEY difference in my games with the two. DJ's deck has very little burn but tons of removal. The fact that Temper can go face has been HUGE in my games with WW's deck.
DJ's deck has two Glorybringers which are awesome but with WW's deck, the game is over by then.

I love both decks to death, but MAN is WW's deck ever more my speed (only slightly). The burn is huge. Bomat and Pia add all sorts of interesting tactical possibilities to the deck that I can abuse (if I'm having a good night).


Temper needs discard to be better than the red Trial. WWs deck has a total of 4 discard sources (not counting Courier, which needs things to line up correctly unless you're ok with wasting other cards in hand), two of which can be Pushed before you can even trigger discard, so odds are good that you're having to spend 3 mana (needing double red) to cast the spell a fairly large % of the time - thus limiting the number of spells you can cast per turn. My loss with WWs deck exemplified this problem - tho it was the 3 mana needed to cast UD, but principle is the same - removal wasn't cheap enough to cast that and build my board presence at the same time. It's not a bad spell in WWs deck, but not as reliably boss as in hellbent decks with more discard sources to reliably cast for :r:. Firecrafts/Defiances might offer better value in the spot.

Hellion isn't better than Harvester here imo. Evasive attacker > landlocked one, and Harvesters don't have a 2 turn clock till death. Harvester was the most run vehicle in last seasons tournaments for a good reason. I think saying Hellions are better because of Keys isn't persuasive to me because we can only run 2 keys and can't expect to draw them every game.

_________________
Updated Decklists


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:02 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Feb 29, 2016
Posts: 2764
Location: Portugal
Congrats Dj.
Sorry I didn't get around to testing all the decks...
I didn't vote, but I'm pretty sure my deck wasn't the best. Just tried to go with something slightly different.
Anyway, I'm a little burnt-out on rakdos and mono-red. Just had a really bad run, were I lost something like 6 or 7 games to opponents who pulled off incredible top-decks or ninja'd me with sneaky kills the turn before I'd win.
I then went and played azorius spirits, which has been doing pretty good. I was finally beating a ramp deck after a long game and the damn Duels client goes and crashes...
I hate long games...
I'm getting kind of bored with the meta.
Its control, Vehicles, zombies, rakdos and superfriends over and over and over again...

Please do not make any of these archtypes the next one for the Competition. I will not take part.

_________________
Give me land, Give me fire, Give me that which I desire! :mage:
My Duels Youtube Channel


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 9786
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I just hope the next one will be fast decks again

_________________
DCG-MTG wrote:
There's a limited amount of fun to be had in a single game, and this deck will ensure no one has any of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:34 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 03, 2017
Posts: 193
I just hope the next one will be fast decks again


I read that as

I just hope the next one will be fat decks again


I would vote, however I lack too many to be able to build all the decks - and I don't trust myself to evaluate them in my head


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group