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 Post subject: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Been playing this on the ladder and it has been doing surprisingly well. There are a lot of options in red, but this is just the shell i've been playing/tuning. Cartouche has been decent but not outstanding, so that will probably be the first cut.

Big Red AKH

Creature(21)
4 x Bloodlust Inciter
3 x Flameblade Adept
2 x Harsh Mentor
3 x Bloodrage Brawler
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
2 x Hanweir Garrison
2 x Heart-Piercer Manticore
1 x Hazoret the Fervent
2 x Glorybringer

Instant(9)
3 x Lightning Axe
2 x Invigorated Rampage
4 x Fiery Temper

Split(2)
2 x Insult

Enchantment(4)
4 x Cartouche of Zeal

Land(24)
22 x Mountain
2 x Hanweir Battlements


To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 94fa67193b

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:00 am 
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If your playing the Cartouche, why not the Trials? Extra burn to face or removal that you sometimes can repeat.

I'm using them in boros humans (and Sram) and so far it has been pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Here's the mono red I'm starting with. Just went 4-0 since I made it this morning so I feel comfortable with it.

Insolent Neonate x2
Bomat Courier x2
Magma Spray x2

Harsh Mentor x2
Battlefield Scavenger x3
Ravaging Blaze x2
Cathartic Reunion x2

Lathnu Hellion x2
Hanweir Garrison x2
Ahn-Crop Crasher x3
Kozilek's Return x1
Exquisite Firecraft x2
Collective Defiance x2
Devour in Flames x1
Insult // Injury x2

Impetuous Devils x2
Voldaren Duelist x1
Fleetwheel Cruiser x2

Glorybringer x2

Looming Spires x2
Hanweir Battlements x2
Blighted Gorge x1
Mountain x18


Updated list with a lot more early pressure. I was able to drop a Cathartic because the Battlefield Scavenger really pulls weight. I might drop a Magma Spry for a 2nd Voldaren Duelist because I went down to 1 Duelist and took out a mountain to add the Neonates. edit: on second thought taking a instant/sorcer for a creature ma not be a good idea if I want to hit players with Ravaging Blaze

If you guys play the new version let me know what you think.


Last edited by sixty4half on Fri May 05, 2017 12:37 am, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:42 am 
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I see a bunch of unblockable sources of red damage, like Harsh Mentor and Glorybringer's effect, sorceries and isntants...

Would it be worthwhile to run an Embermaw Hellion in one of the upper slots?

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:12 am 
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Yeah, I'll try Harsh Mentor. Looks like it just might be the 2 drop I was looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Updated the 3rd post with my new list. It lowers the curve, swaps a mountain for a steppe and drops a mountain.


soupcannon wrote:
Would it be worthwhile to run an Embermaw Hellion in one of the upper slots?


Hellion is probably to slow for this deck. Glorybringer, Firecraft and Blaze are all better finishers. Hellion can't win by itself (barring an open board and Opp having no removal) and only helps those other win conditions by 1 life, 1 turn later. He's also harsh on the curve, Glorybringer is pretty much the only 5 drop worth it. If we had access to 4 glorybringers I'd have to add a land.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:37 pm 
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I feel like the Cartouche would be best in a Boros deck, with the white Cartouche and Trial of Solidarity / Trial of Zeal.

Vigilance would negate the drawback of exert creatures. Tokens from white Cartouche + Hanweir Garrison would make Oketra the True work (probably in place of Hazoret due to bouncing enchantments making it hard to keep your hand empty).

Plus it opens up Honored Crop-Captain

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Kel'Thuzad wrote:
I feel like the Cartouche would be best in a Boros deck, with the white Cartouche and Trial of Solidarity / Trial of Zeal.

Vigilance would negate the drawback of exert creatures. Tokens from white Cartouche + Hanweir Garrison would make Oketra the True work (probably in place of Hazoret due to bouncing enchantments making it hard to keep your hand empty).

Plus it opens up Honored Crop-Captain


Yeah, I've already tried it. Not bad actually.

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18643

No white god though, even though I've lost to it, it still hasn't convinced me.

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Interesting. I forgot about Always Watching, which seems pretty nasty with exert creatures. I threw a version together this morning that i'll post after work.

White god would be optional. The main point was red god would be sub-par if we're bouncing enchantments back to our hand.

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:48 am 
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There's a lot of looting going on with Defiance, Reunion, Couriers, and Scavengers into Crashers and Glorybringer. My deck may want Fiery Temper. Gonna test it out before I post more changes though.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Sixty, you got a Blighted Steppe in there like some kind of retard, you must mean Blighted Gorge?

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:07 am 
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This seemed like the most appropriate place to leave this list that I just built, seeing as I started out with lists that were inspired by this thread. So far it's been doing pretty well, and a lot of freakin fun. You want to mulligan for Vessel of Volatility (and Conduit of Storms to a lesser extent, he's your secondary acceleration, and he works better than midrange Chandra because you want to be tapping out and have nothing to defend her with), although not to the point of just giving yourself a complete **** hand. It's a little greedy with 23 lands, but you don't want to go too high, because your top-decks are super important in this style of deck.

If y'all ever played Legacy back in the day, it plays a good bit like Dragon Stompy (although without the Trinisphere style mana disruption package obviously). Hope y'all enjoy.


Duels Stompy:

1 Kari Zhev, Skyship Raider
3 Bloodrage Brawler
4 Vessel of Volatility
3 Harnessed Lightning

2 Hanweir Garrison
2 Conduit of Storms
2 Ahn-Crop Crasher
1 Kozilek's Return
3 Fiery Temper
2 Collective Defiance

1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Fleetwheel Cruiser

1 Mirrorwing Dragon
2 Glorybringer
2 Reality Smasher

2 Endbringer
1 Chandra, Flamecaller

23 Lands:

16 Mountains
2 Hanweir Battlements
1 Blighted Gorge
1 Rogue's Passage
3 Aether Hub


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:38 am 
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Sixty, you got a Blighted Steppe in there like some kind of retard, you must mean Blighted Gorge?


IDK what you're talking about. My list has Blighted Gorge.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:12 am 
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Nice edit dummy

Did you change anything else? I wrecked AI last night with your deck. I had two early scavengers and didn't exert them once cuz I need to keep swinging
Also I had two early Cathartic Reunion so I didn't really need them but I don't want to dig when I can be doing damage instead. It's a red deck. The Scavengers are really weird, especially with no Fiery Temper

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Nice edit dummy

Did you change anything else? I wrecked AI last night with your deck. I had two early scavengers and didn't exert them once cuz I need to keep swinging
Also I had two early Cathartic Reunion so I didn't really need them but I don't want to dig when I can be doing damage instead. It's a red deck. The Scavengers are really weird, especially with no Fiery Temper


No changes yet. I'm considering:
+4 Fiery Temper
-2 Magma Spray
-1 Cathartic Reunion
-1 Ravaging Blaze

You did the right thing with the Scavengers. If you need to keep swinging, you keep swinging. But there are gonna be games where you just need more gas so you'll use them to loot more. Most of the times they're gonna be looting off of the Crashers being Exerted, not themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Omg, i just thought of a really cool way to use the scavengers. You know how badly red wants to hit face, ya? What if you swung with a scavenger against a guy that has a blocker that can trade with it (assuming you have no removal to get rid of the blocker yourself). You then exert the scavenger that time in attacking and now your opponent has a tough choice. They block against this guy who is going to be a small threat in 2 turns (giving you plenty of time to draw more pressure) or they decide to just let it through since this thing is taking a nap next turn. Honestly, I think i'm happy with either choice the opponent makes. If an exerted scavenger gets blocked and kills a creature, that's a LOT of use out of him that turn. He removed a creature and you got to dig. Neonate can't do that.


Ok, i really think your swap makes sense. ESPECIALLY for the Reunion and Blaze. The Blazes can get blocked easily with basic removal. AND they need spell mastery to be decent AND they need lots of land to be really decent. That's a lot of things.

The magma sprays can't hit face, right? Mono red hates removal that can't also hit face. Jund doesn't mind it, but mono-red hates it.

It's weird seeing you add-in fiery tempers and take out Cathartic Reunion tho... those cards really get along well.

Anyway, i think that swap is excellent. I would love for my scavengers to be hitting 3 to the face.

but... would I want to fiery temper a potential blocker while exerting scavenger? Cuz then I'm only hitting 2 to face and I can't swing again for a while. Maybe it's better to hit face and give my opponent that tough choice I spoke of earlier. hmmmm...

i like this deck and I haven't even brought it on ladder yet

edit: Scavengers can loot when the other guys exert?!?!?!? How did I not know this?? Oh man, that changes everything

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:39 pm 
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You seem to really not like the Blazes. Instead of 1 Cathartic you could get rid of both blazes and sprays for the Tempers. Using Cathartic to pay 4 for 6 damage and 3 new cards is pretty nice. Spell Mastery is pretty easy at 2 but if you think they're not doing work. In about 12 games played, I honestly can't remember using one. I think that's more that I didn't draw them than the fact that I was winning without them, but you may be on to something. Good to have feedback.

And yes, scavengers loot off of any exerted creature. I feel like at 8 exert creatures, they are doing enough to warrant inclusion. This is the first deck I've used them in so they're more of a test, but I had a really hard time picking a proper 2 drop for this deck.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Nono don't listen to me about Blazes yet, I haven't played your deck on ladder, I just remember how bad Blazes were against evoleap decks which used to be very common when I played monored

I need to play your deck a bit before I know for sure

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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:56 pm 
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You bring up a good point. I haven't seen any evolpea recently but Bontu/crats is getting played. I guess it'll depend on how many sac outlets people start playing with again.


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 Post subject: Re: [AKH] Big Red
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Going on ladder now with this thing

1-0
Kept a bad starter with:
2x looming spire
Battlements
Haste exert guy
Cruiser
Ravaging blaze
Insult

I drew a mountain and that's game. Haste guy attacks T3, t4 with cruiser, t5 Insult gg

Insult giving a power 10 trampler is fun

Insult made me want to play Elks deck again... brb

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