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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:49 pm 
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N1, what were your losses? Perfect drawing Aggro decks I would guess. The fancy links you could do with putting [ card ][/ card ] without the spaces in front and behind the card name like "[ card ]Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger[/ card ]".


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:28 am 
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Thanks! The losses were usually due to mana with a few perfect storm scenarios mixed in. The best game was against a Bant self mill graveyard digging deck that got me to 1 life before he decked himself. Aggro decks don't bother me at all.

Worst matchups have hex proof creatures when I can't counter, or plenty of flashy creatures and instants.

Edit:
Well, maybe I was getting very lucky for a long time, or now I'm just having no luck at all. Just lost 3 in a row. Albeit, one I had to mulligan down to 6 against a human tribal.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Dimir Touch
Speed 2.5
Strength 4
Control 5
Synergy 2.5

Creatures 8
2 Thing in the Ice
3 Stitched Mangler
3 Fleshbag Marauder

Planeswalker 2
1 Liliana, The Last Hope
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets

Spells 24
3 Broken Concentration
2 Scatter to the Winds
3 Compelling Deterrence
3 Murder
3 Reave Soul
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Languish
3 Rise From The Tides
2 Dark Salvation


Land 26
7 Island
7 Swamp
4 Submerged Boneyard
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Sunken Hollow
4 Evolving Wilds

This is the deck I been running. I came here to get better. Though I'm more about having fun then outright winning. I like however to play a game where I control even if I lose. At any rate I noticed some people have similar card lists. Guess great minds think alike. This is my third iteration of this deck, which was the first one I made as soon as I had every card unlocked.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:24 pm 
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What's Stitched Mangler doing in there? Also, Oath of Liliana is probably better than Fleshbag for your purposes. 2 Rise from the Tides should be enough. You really don't want multiple 6 mana spells in your hand. You probably don't need Submerged Boneyards with just two colours - Drownyard Temple might be nice if you put in any self-mill or discard, since you can use it to ramp you later. Reave Soul is probably redundant, but your other removal works nicely with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. I'd start keeping track of how often Thing in the Ice fails to return stuff because said stuff is Horrors and evaluate if it's the right call for your deck. Compelling Deterrence is generally not worth it; Sweep Away or Grip of the Roil are generally better - play Grip on their turn if you can, keeps it tapped another turn. Imprison in the Moon to shut down opposing PWs.

So basically;
-3 Stitched, -3 Fleshbag, -3 Compelling, -3 Reave, -1 Rise, -4 Submerged Boneyard
+Kalitas, +2 Oath of Liliana, +3 Sweep or Grip, +2 Drownyard Temple, +2 Imprison +6 open slots - possibly Oath of Jace, Ob Nixilis Reignited, Pieces of the Puzzle, or Pore Over the Pages.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:50 pm 
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Sorry but after winning pretty solid in versus I'm keeping the deck as is. My few losses are when I play a stupid move. Otherwise the deck has strong removals and counters. And keeps the board pretty locked down until the Zombie Engine makes them lose the game. I just won a game that I thought I had lost until I stalled enough for my Zombie Engine to hit the floor. Once that happened they left.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Here is my dimir deck, I decided to go with a zombie theme below is the list;

Here is the deck list for the blue and black zombie deck:
7 x Island
10 x Swamp
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacomb
4 x Submerged Boneyard

2 x Cryptbreaker
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Diregraf Colossus
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
3 x Crow of Dark Tidings
2 x Prized Amalgam
1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 x Haunted Dead
1 x Gisa and Geralf

2 x Graf Harvest
2 x Dark Salvation
2 x Grasp of Darkness
4 x Take Inventory
3 x Murder
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
2 x Read The Bones
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignted


checkout the deck tech here:


Wanna see some gameplay then look no further:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:17 pm 
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IssacFrost wrote:
Sorry but after winning pretty solid in versus I'm keeping the deck as is. My few losses are when I play a stupid move. Otherwise the deck has strong removals and counters. And keeps the board pretty locked down until the Zombie Engine makes them lose the game. I just won a game that I thought I had lost until I stalled enough for my Zombie Engine to hit the floor. Once that happened they left.


First post; "My deck. Plz make better."
Me *Makes better.*
Second post; no shut up never change it!


...K.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:11 pm 
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IssacFrost wrote:
Sorry but after winning pretty solid in versus I'm keeping the deck as is. My few losses are when I play a stupid move. Otherwise the deck has strong removals and counters. And keeps the board pretty locked down until the Zombie Engine makes them lose the game. I just won a game that I thought I had lost until I stalled enough for my Zombie Engine to hit the floor. Once that happened they left.


First post; "My deck. Plz make better."
Me *Makes better.*
Second post; no shut up never change it!


...K.



No thats not what I was intending or to throw your words out the window. I did try it but it seems like I'm not good with that version you gave me. Possibly because I got used to this. I was losing more with the other version so I gathered that I probably should stick with this one for now. But I do have the other version prepared. Just that I have more trouble playing because of the changes. I'm not trying to diss you or anything of the kind.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:57 pm 
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My current UB deck, there's a couple of things from kaladesh I wanted to add, but first I wanted to ask if I missed something obvious, it keeps me
around rank 36-40 in steam so it's not the worst thing ever but is most likely possible to improve it even with just the current cards.

2 cryptbreaker
2 dead weight
2 dark salvation

1 jace, vryn's prodigy
2 wharf infiltrator
3 falkenrath heir
1 compelling deterrence

2 prized amalgam
3 broken concentration
3 murder
2 read the bones
1 liliana, the last hope

3 haunted dead
3 gisa's bidding

2from under the floorboard
2 advanced stitchwing
1 ob nixilis reignited
1 jace unraveler of secrets

6 Island
9 swamp
2 checkland
2 tangoland
2 westwale Abbey
3 tapland

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:16 pm 
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My current UB deck, there's a couple of things from kaladesh I wanted to add, but first I wanted to ask if I missed something obvious, it keeps me
around rank 36-40 in steam so it's not the worst thing ever but is most likely possible to improve it even with just the current cards.
2 x cryptbreaker
2 x dead weight
2 x dark salvation

1 x jace, vryn's prodigy
2 x wharf infiltrator
3 x falkenrath heir
1 x compelling deterrence

2 x prized amalgam
3 x broken concentration
3 x murder
2 x read the bones
1 x liliana, the last hope

3 x haunted dead
3 x gisa's bidding

2 x from under the floorboard
2 x advanced stitchwing
1 x ob nixilis reignited
1 x jace unraveler of secrets

6 x Island
9 x swamp
2 x checkland
2 x tangoland
2 x westwale Abbey
3 x tapland


Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet ?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:02 am 
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The problem I have is that the madness outlets outside of infiltrator/jace/heir all take 2 mana to activate their madness, this makes the curve of spells like Gisa's Bidding or From Under the Floorboards and Broken Concentration very very high.
Back in SOI I ran 3 Reckless scholar and 3 Call the Bloodline for these effects, because madness or another free outlet made the spells good rate.
Reckless scholar: draw a card, broken concentration =Cryptic Command, Call the bloodline : gisa's bidding; make 2/2 2/2 + 1/1 lifelink at instant speed > Moan of the Unhallowed etc etc.

I'm not saying Haunted dead isn't good, especially with Amalgams around, but the advanced stitchwings are definately worse rate imo.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:57 am 
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Having a card that doesn't affect the board, is Always sorcery speed and costs 4 mana feels kinda bad since I'm often able to start playing during the opponent turn by turn 4 and if I already have a creature or two out I might become weak to sweepers.Same deal with gisa and geralf, while dark salvation can at least force a sweeper by itself or remove blockers

@rabblemaster: the good thing about haunted dead is that it can create a lot of power on the board starting with no presence once you get that fifth land, I found.
I considered dragoon, but since I'm not looking to discard for discard sake more than once or twice a match a bear seemed underwelming, I might give it another spin over dead weight, untapping with infiltrator/jace sure is a pain.
The two stichwings are mostly to have a replacement in case I didn't found the deads, finding one of three cards is not Always easy and between walkers, murders, read the bones and the counterspell the deck has a lot of things it doesn't mind discarding in the wrong match up, plus eot 3/4 Flying are kinda hard to remove so it's not the worst contingency plan to get in for some damage once you hitted the opponent enough, still unsure about it however.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Dimirge

2CC
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2x Wharf Infiltrator
3x Heir of Falkenrath
2x Compelling Deterrence
4x Take Inventory
2x Whispers of Emrakul

XCC
2x Displacement Wave

3CC
2x Eldrazi Skyspawner
2x Prized Amalgam
2x Imprisoned in the Moon

4CC
3x Haunted Dead

5CC
3x Advanced Stitchwing
2x Possessed Skaab

8CC
2x Elder Deep-Fiend
2x Distended Mindbender
2x Drownyard Behemoth

Lands
7x Island
6x Swamp
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Drowned Catacomb
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
2x Drownyard Temple
2x Evolving Wilds
2x Submerged Boneyard

Concept: Emerge as a support ability rather than a strongly-dependent centerpiece; a few other organic value manipulation plays are available too.

Great: A looter or heir drops Haunted Dead into grave, then end of opponent's turn 3 Haunted Dead comes back, my turn 4 it makes a great Emerge target, such as possible turn 4 Drownyard Behemoth.

Middling: Any number of other little interactions in this deck, combined with long-term value plays, makes me hard to kill and I win by creating tough board states.

Worst: Superfriends or Thopter Spy Network gets out of control, or I somehow fail to answer one or more 4+ toughness critter.

Tested in 14 games from ranks 11-19. If you play it you may have fun.
After Kaladesh comes in, this deck could be rebuilt to accommodate Smuggler's Copter for additional early looting.


I bounced an Ormendahl with Displacement Wave and it made me smile.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:29 am 
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I've been running a very similar deck for some time now - it's my favorite deck and the only one I regularly play. If I can make 2 suggestions:

-2 Displacement Wave
-1 Advanced Stitchwing

+1 Kozilek's Return
+2 Languish

Kozilek's Return is a no-brainer with Emerge. I've never had trouble getting it into the graveyard, and you run 5 more ways to put it in the graveyard than I do. It's definitely a better card than the 3rd Advanced Stitchwing - I've found that Advanced Stitchwing is almost always discard fodder for Haunted Dead anyway, and I never really want more than one to show up in a game (although I run two).

Languish is a better sweeper than Displacement Wave; your emerge creatures survive it, and your zombies don't care about dying to it because they'll be back. Given your discard sub-theme, you want to empty their hand, not put things back in it. And you already have Compelling Deterrence for things that survive Languish.

I don't run Imprisoned in the Moon, but I do run 3 Compelling Deterrence - it helps the discard theme quite a bit, and it also deals with Planeswalkers and Tutelages. I also run 3x Vexing Scuttler instead of the Drownyard Behemoths so I can get Compelling Deterrence or Whispers back. I haven't lost to Superfriends in quite some time - Compelling Deterrence gets the job done. I do like the Drownyard Behemoth here, but I've found recycling my own spells is more useful. I guess Possessed Skaab serves that purpose for you though - how has that worked out? I avoided it because I rarely want to spend 5 mana on a creature, and for the same 5 mana I can cast Vexing Scuttler and either Whispers, Compelling Deterrence, or Take Inventory in the same turn. But I haven't actually experimented with the Skaab and I'm interested in your experience.

Also, if you can find a way to put Liliana, the Last Hope in, you won't be disappointed. While I've won a few games with her ultimate, the real use is getting an emerge creature back from the graveyard.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:55 am 
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Thanks dh50, I'll try out your suggestions.

Quote:
Kozilek's Return is a no-brainer with Emerge. I've never had trouble getting it into the graveyard, and you run 5 more ways to put it in the graveyard than I do. It's definitely a better card than the 3rd Advanced Stitchwing - I've found that Advanced Stitchwing is almost always discard fodder for Haunted Dead anyway, and I never really want more than one to show up in a game (although I run two).

I'll splash in KR just to see how it works in practice, but I've been avoiding it because: 1. I'd want to put in some mountains in case I ever wanted to cast it from hand, 2. Only Elder Deep-Fiend and Drownyard Behemoth can live to see KR make an asymmetrical board state.
I put in 3x Stitchwing so I round out to 6x "dump and revive" critters for paranoia reasons, but yeah you're right, there are plenty of times it just goes in the bin. I'll take one down and see what happens.

PSkaab can be played without any dependencies, it's compelling, and it also has the option of getting JVP or a possible dead Emerge critter like EDF. I may rearrange some things to test Vexing Scuttler.

I'll let you know how things turn out.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:31 pm 
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I tried putting a mountain in to hardcast Kozilek's Return, and then took it out after a lot of testing. I found that the lower consistency in mana made the Mountain not worth it overall just to cast one card. If I added a Mountain, it would be a replacement for a non-land. But it's so easy to put KR in the graveyard, a Mountain isn't necessary.

Kozilek's Return will kill the Mindbender if it's on the battlefield and you activated KR with a diffferent creature, but sometimes you need a sweeper and it's worth it. But casting a Mindbender to trigger KR but won't actually kill the Mindbender, which resolves after KR goes off.

The real beauty of KR is that it's instantaneous - it's exiled from the graveyard, not cast - so they don't get a response. Your opponent can respond to the Eldrazi on the stack, but as soon as it moves to trigger KR, they don't get a reaction. So let's say Selfless Spirit is on the battlefield, and you cast a Mindbender. Your opponent can pause while the Mindbender is on the stack, and sacrifice the spirit to give their other creatures invulnerability. If they do that, you can just say no to the KR trigger and activate it on a subsequent turn. If they don't sac the spirit, you say yes to the KR trigger and they lose their board - they don't have a second chance to sac the spirit. The same is true for any combat trick or sacrifice effect like Evolutionary Leap.

KR + Deep-fiend during your opponent's attack phase is amazing. Wipe their board, tap their lands, and give yourself a 5/6 that they probably can't remove until their next turn at best.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:49 pm 
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I tweaked the deck to run KR, Languish, Scuttler, Liliana. I was not happy, deck was slower, and weaker in terms of tempo plays and aggression.

I went back to the previous build just like it was. I beat some kind of Bant deck and RG Werewolves. I folded to a couple of tough fights against Orzhov lifelinking. Straight up creamed by how much 2x Titan's Strength on Goblin Glory Chaser in presence of a Mage-Ring Bully hurts, and folded to a couple of aggro decks when my value plays somehow failed to materialize. Excuses, excuses -- I'll mess around with it a bit later.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: 2 games of Distended Mindbender landing on all-land hands.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:49 am 
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Sorry things didn't work out. I'm surprised you said it was slower; Languish is faster than Displacement Wave most of the time, and Liliana is frequently an anti-aggro card.

In any case, here is my complete build. It's been enormously successful for me over the last few weeks, winning the vast majority of its games at rank 40.

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Compelling Deterrence
2 x Telling Time
2 x Nagging Thoughts
4 x Take Inventory
2 x Whispers of Emrakul
2 x Prized Amalgam
2 x Oath of Jace
2 x Murder
1 x Kozilek's Return
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
3 x Haunted Dead
2 x Languish
2 x Advanced Stitchwing
2 x Elder Deep-Fiend
2 x Distended Mindbender
3 x Vexing Scuttler
6 x Island
10 x Swamp
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacombs
4 x Evolving Wilds


I have more card draw than you but fewer early creatures, although the 4 slots occupied by Telling Time and Nagging Thoughts are the most negotiable - I swap them out from time to time for Wharf Infiltrator, Cryptbreaker, Pieces of the Puzzle or 4x Nagging Thoughts, but I think what I have now works the best.

Sometimes I'll get blown out by aggro, but it's rare - usually I'll be able to stall until I hit a sweeper and then stabilize the board. Having the third sweeping in Kozilek's Return has been essential, however. The only deck that consistently gives me problems is Abzhan when it's focused on bringing things back from the graveyard, because it completely neutralizes the advantage that discard brings the deck.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:54 am 
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Yeah, reanimator is a pain,I'm still trying to figure out how to beat a reanimator deck with linvala using zombies, I'm just glad that some lists run greenwarden instead.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:03 pm 
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@dh50
Displacement Wave makes a sort of mini-combo with the cheated-in high-mana creatures (and even reused by Possess Skaab) that allows an asymmetrical play: I sweep away their litter and hit for a boat of damage. Doesn't happen often but fun when it does. :-|
Alternate explanation: Languish and KR make the deck slower because the deck's pilot is a maniac.

I'll mess around with it a bit more, see how it does against vehicles, and post if I have anything new to add.


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