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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm 
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Dimir Decklists


Black Cards


Blue Cards


Multi-Colour Cards


Colourless Cards


Non-Basic Lands

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:37 pm 
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My attempt at Dimir mill. Uses a lot of draw + 9 removal tools and 3 counterspells in addition to 2 field wipes to keep the board clean. Some spell recursion with possessed skaab. Let me know what you guys think.

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Sigiled Starfish
3 x Reave Soul
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 x Read the Bones
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
3 x Calculated Dismissal
4 x Inspiration
2 x Languish
1 x Erebos's Titan
3 x Cruel Revival
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Possessed Skaab
2 x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

18 Blue
28 Black

14 creatures / 22 non creature spells / 24 land

4 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Drowned Catacomb
4 x Evolving Wilds
9 x Swamp
5 x Island

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Is mill a thing this year? Admittedly what little there is is significantly better then it was last year but it seems based entirely on Sphinx's Tutelage and Jace popping his ultimate. Is that enough? Jace is a mythic and comes online (at the absolute earliest) on Turn 7 so he's crushingly slow. Can the Sphinx cut it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:52 am 
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We'll have to see. It all depends on your ability to stay alive long enough.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:00 am 
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Binderato your list needs more perilous myr.

With only 3 counterspells I would be tempted to swap inspiration for bitter revelation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:40 pm 
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I'll try your list out Binderato.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Thanks let me know how it turns out for you. I really want mill to work this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:38 pm 
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binderato wrote:
Thanks let me know how it turns out for you. I really want mill to work this year.



Yeah, opponent milling is definitely a viable archetype this time around. Anywho, I played a few games with your deck and I feel it struggles against aggro, specifically enchantment aggro. Languish is a great card to have, but with only 2 in the game, drawing into it has a lower percentage. Bounce spells would benefit in the decklist.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:50 am 
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HenWen wrote:
Binderato your list needs more perilous myr.

With only 3 counterspells I would be tempted to swap inspiration for bitter revelation.


The reason I took inspiration over bitter revelation was the latter doesn't count as draw hence it doesn't proc my sphinx. I do see your point in getting to see more cards as I look at the top 4 and get to grab 2 instead of just straight drawing 2. Also what would you suggest replacing for the perilous myr. I am thinking the starfish as it would help with the aggro problems that zzmorg82 mentioned.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:58 am 
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binderato wrote:
HenWen wrote:
Binderato your list needs more perilous myr.

With only 3 counterspells I would be tempted to swap inspiration for bitter revelation.


The reason I took inspiration over bitter revelation was the latter doesn't count as draw hence it doesn't proc my sphinx. I do see your point in getting to see more cards as I look at the top 4 and get to grab 2 instead of just straight drawing 2. Also what would you suggest replacing for the perilous myr. I am thinking the starfish as it would help with the aggro problems that zzmorg82 mentioned.


I'm really loving the Sigiled Starfish in this meta, scrying is very efficient as it allows you to maneuver throughout the deck. I hardly block with it unless there's a clean block or I'm facing lethal.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:58 am 
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I know it could be pricy but have you guys considered Displacement Wave for this list at all?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:12 am 
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binderato wrote:
My attempt at Dimir mill. Uses a lot of draw + 9 removal tools and 3 counterspells in addition to 2 field wipes to keep the board clean. Some spell recursion with possessed skaab. Let me know what you guys think.

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Sigiled Starfish
3 x Reave Soul
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 x Read the Bones
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
3 x Calculated Dismissal
4 x Inspiration
2 x Languish
1 x Erebos's Titan
3 x Cruel Revival
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Possessed Skaab
2 x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

18 Blue
28 Black

14 creatures / 22 non creature spells / 24 land

4 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Drowned Catacomb
4 x Evolving Wilds
9 x Swamp
5 x Island


I'll put it out there, MILL IS A THING, this format is definitely slow enough for it, in competitive play it may end up being THE THING because there is little to punish it (Gaea's Revenge is about it).

I like your deck. That out of the way, I want to pick on it.

I don't think you need all three Sphinx's Tutelage, but I could be wrong on that. For now I run two and it gets the job done.

You certainly don't need 4 read the bones and 4 inspiration. You'll have those games where you need to draw action and you only draw more draw spells. Read the Bones is better because you get to look 4 cards deep if needed, I don't run any inspiration.

Your games will run very long, so Calculated Dismissal will become useless in time. I recommend switching one or two copies into Bone to Ash, this card has been very good for me.

Find room for one or two Disperses so you can answer a variety of threats, including Planeswalkers.

Add Jorubai Murk Lurker for a great blocker and life gain. I didn't think I'd like this guy and I don't, I love him! I was stunned at how much he helped, especially without other life gain in the deck.

Consider Jhessian Thief, in my experience this is a great blocker early and a great card drawer later.

Happy Duels!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:17 am 
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2bestest wrote:
I know it could be pricy but have you guys considered Displacement Wave for this list at all?



I love Displacement Wave because of the lockout you can create with Possessed Skaab, endlessly bouncing everything. There are many decks that do nothing about this. That said, it isn't great in a lot of situations which I didn't expect. What I would have given for this card against token decks in 2015, but alas...

I think finding room for one is a good call, you don't want or need two because it doesn't help much early.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:24 pm 
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I would agree. ;)

I will deff be putting together a variant of the list above, and I do feel it deserves a 1of status here.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Hey guy’s posting a test deck for a Zombie reanimater theme deck

Mana base
13x swamp
5x island
2x drowned catacomb
4x dimir guildgate
Total: 24 land

Here’s some calculations
Blue sources: 11
Black sources 19
82% chance to draw a blue source by turn 2 without mulligans
90% chance to draw double black by turn 3 without mulligans
54% chance to draw a tapped land in your opening 7
40% chance to draw a guildgate in your opening 7

One-drops

Tapped-lands (dimir guildgate / drowned catacomb)
Total: 6

Two-drops
4x Screeching Skaab (helps mill yourself / gets in for damage early / trades off later)
4x Shambling Ghoul (another early way to put something on the board + decent stats)
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (helps mill yourself, can flip easily late game, can buy-back removal/recursion later or turn into a win condition)
1x Corpse Hauler (early damage/can get back a planeswalkers later on)
2x Reave Soul (early removal)
Total: 12

Three-drops
2x Scrapskin Drake (decent flier, can help protect against other fliers)
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer (lifelink helps with stabilizing and paying for draw spells, flips and gains card advantage, can help bring back a threat if needed, can also become a win condition later)
1x Jorubai Murk Lurker (mana sink late game / helps with flooding / life gain is helpful for offsetting early aggression or draw spells)
2x Fleshbag Marauder (helps get rid of priest of blood rite / can be used to get rid of a creature reave soul can’t / good effect and decent body for trading)
2x Read the Bones (card draw + digging, usually for removal)
Total: 8

Four-drops
2x Languish (board wipe for heavy aggressive decks)
4x Bitter Revelation (draws 2 + mills 2 at a marginal cost / can turn draw 2 into draw 3 with a recursion spell)
Total: 6

Five-drops
1x Cruel Revival (kill anything / heavy cost but can get back a dude / usually not as helpful as spell mastery from unholy hunger)
3x Unholy Hunger (same as cruel revival with a different effect / maybe an even split would be better? Not many ‘good’ zombies to bring back though)
1x Possessed Skaab (value)
2x Necromantic Summons (better than rise from the grave with spell mastery)
1x Rise from the Grave (testing this slot, fill free to try something else)
Total: 10

6-drops
2x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder (finisher / something ‘big’ to bring back with milling yourself)
Total: 2

Curve looks like this
0-6-12-8-6-8-2

Early game turns:
Turn 1: tap land (if available)
Turn 2: Screeching Skaab or Shambling Ghoul (70%) or Reave Soul (25%)
Turn 3: tap land + 2-drop, or kill spell, or 3 drop (75% chance of 3-drop on turn 3)
Turn 4: 2-drop + 2-drop, or 3-drop + tapped land, or 4-drop (68% chance of 4-drop on turn 4)
Turn 5: kill spell, or animate something (75% chance of 5-drop on turn 5)

End game
Swing with 5/5 from Priest
Swing with 6/6 Flyer
Attack with all zombies (Liliana ultimate)
Mill your opponent (Jace Ultimate)

Final note
I don't have iPad or anything so this is just a theorycrafted deck.

edit: Was missing two cards so I added placeholders. Feel free to play around with the numbers for reanimation spells at the 5-drop slot.

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Last edited by Rattleclaw_mystic on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:04 pm 
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Here is what I am currently playing around with as far as the graveyard focused deck. I wasn't really finding a need for the necromantic summons/rise so I opted out of them. I have a little higher curve so I hope to make up for it with the options of lifegain and massive amounts of removal.

I am testing undead servant as a 4 of here. With only 1 in the graveyard, playing the second is totally worth it. More in the graveyard, even better! Haven't made up my mind yet if overall I would be better off dropping them for other options but the deck feels relatively nice so far.

DEATHCYCLE

2x Bone Splinters
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Screeching Skaab
1x Displacement Wave
4x Reave Soul
3x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2x Graveblade Marauder
3x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Undead Servant
2x Languish
4x Bitter Revelation
1x Possessed Skaab
2x Cruel Revival
2x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

8x Island
10x Swamp
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Dimir Guildgate

Screeching Skaab is there to fill the yard obviously and provide chump services.
Reave Soul Is phenomenal in this meta and we have other removal options to cover what it misses.
Jorubai Murk Lurker Just put him in to replace the 0/3 scry dude. It never felt too needed and I am hoping that the lurker's lifegain can be relevant at times to offset the lack of the turn earlier drop. The dmg on this blocker will help a lot. He may become Shambling Ghoul
Graveblade Marauder Plays really nice in this pile as a turn 3 defender with deathtouch, and the upside to deal bigger damages as the graveyard fills if he isn't blocked. (with all the removal that's rarely too difficult)
Undead Servant The deck seems to play well without drawing him but man is there a lot of potential upside with having a couple of these in the graveyard while casting him. Even 1 is enough to make him worth his pricetag. I am not 100% if I want to keep him around yet though. I am considering opting out of him and running other options. But he just has loads of synergy here.
Bitter Revelation Card draw, synergy. What's more to ask for? If I opt out of undead servant then this will likely turn into Read the Bones
Possessed Skaab Rarely ever feel he is needed but once in a while he can be really helpful. I think he fits just fine here as a 1of. If he was cheaper I would run more.
Cruel Revival Clean up whatever creatures survive the onslaught of other removals. Don't feel I want more than 2 here as it does cost 5 mana. The return of a zombie from your graveyard is pure value here.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder This guy wins games. 6/6 flier. Card draw relatively often as we have so much removal. Nuff said.

The cards I didn't describe speak for themselves..

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:11 am 
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I'm interested in developing a reanimation-control deck when I get the chance. Sort of in the style of the Esper control decks that ran Zombify during original Ravnica standard or the slightly more recent standard that included Unburial Rites. I believe reanimation was eventually less of a focus to the point reanimation cards were cut, but I like the idea of mimicking the concept with a spell mastery fueled Necromantic Summons. Besides getting a second chance at fielding a useful target, I think the real kicker on this card is the +2/+2. We're looking at turning even a small creature into a potential threat, possibly bumping them out of killing range of common cheap removal candidates (Reave Soul, Fiery Impulse).

A couple issues I imagine are A.) the deck might be slow and B.) the deck doesn't really cheat things into play since Summons is so expensive compared to the "fat" the deck could run. Reanimation is more of a means to achieve additional value out of cards in the deck. Still, trying to get a turn 5 Kothophed or maybe Alhammarret could be a potential line of play.

There are decent ways to interact with the opponent and try to stay alive in these colors. Reave Soul and Languish being premium removal in black. Fleshbag Marauder paired with Cruel Revival help compete for board control. Even Jorubai Murk Lurker, Perilous Myr, or Graveblade Marauder can just clog up the ground. I wonder if overloading on defensive creature options disrupts the spell mastery aspect of the deck too much though.

Evaluating the card draw options is a bit of a challenge blind. I'm not that impressed with Artificer's Epiphany as a cycling option, but it's one of the few ways to pitch a card out of the hand. Bitter Revelation digs deeper and helps set up Necromantic Summons, but the cost and life loss might be an issue. There's also Tower Geist which can benefit by being a creature, but doesn't dig quite so deep. I think the big question is whether the power of something like Read the Bones just trumps the attempted synergy that's trying to being achieved here.

I guess a vague sample list might look like:

Creatures:
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Jorubai Murk Lurker
0-3 Tower Geist
2 Priest of the Blood Rite
1 Possessed Skaab
2 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
0-1 Alhammarret, High Arbiter

Noncreatures:
2-3 Telling Time
3-4 Reave Soul
0-4 Artificer's Epiphany
0-4 Bitter Revelation
2 Languish
2-3 Necromantic Summons
2 Unholy Hunger or Cruel Revival

Not entirely sure how I'd complete it, but I'm imagine there are some useful cards to patch any holes. Or I'll have to scrap it and pursue some other kind of B/x board control deck if it doesn't work out. If anyone is working on a similar list especially with real test data, let me know as I'm curious.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:21 am 
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I think the 4/3 elf is expensive but worth it. Its basically shadowborn demon in this format. I would probably include it over alhammarret as the odds of pulling off turn 5 alhammarrett are very slim.

Don't forget Liliana as a discard outlet Brodo.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:02 am 
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I have come to feel that the 4 cost 3/2 zombie that makes tokens is better played as something else due to the fact that we can't fill the graveyard fast enough to consistently get his token. I have replaced him and will modify my deck to reflect the changes shortly.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:36 am 
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HenWen wrote:
I think the 4/3 elf is expensive but worth it. Its basically shadowborn demon in this format. I would probably include it over alhammarret as the odds of pulling off turn 5 alhammarrett are very slim.

Don't forget Liliana as a discard outlet Brodo.
Thanks for the input and reminders. I thought about Liliana, yet her as a discard outlet hinges on her reliability to transform. I don't think every deck can pull that off easily and I don't know if I'd want just a 2/3 lifelinker. Possibly inclusion with some additional early creature presence plus Fleshbag Marauders.

I think Gilt-Leaf Winnower is pretty decent, but the conditional clause irks me a bit. It probably kills enough (I should check the numbers), but off the top of my head there are a decent number of threats that do have matching P/T that I'd like to answer. This cards value has a chance to go up and down depending on what people are playing. Probably start with 1 copy and go from there.


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