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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:06 am 
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Still the best Abzan Lifegain - Reanimator deck around. I'm posting it, because despite coming up with this idea a heck of a long time ago, I've never actually posted it on NGA. Anyways:

[manapie 90 w -u b -r g][/manapie]

Doubling Seance

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (24 :creature: , 12 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 18 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■■
Lone Missionary2/1
■■■■
Satyr Wayfinder1/1
■■■
Wall of Omens0/4
■■■
Treasured Find
Cost 4 cards
■■■■
Necromancer's Assistant3/1
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Angelic Accord
■■
Séance
Cost 2 cards
■■
Doubling Season
Cost 2 cards
■■
Planar Cleansing
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
■■
Rune-Scarred Demon6/6
Land24 cards
■■■■
Golgari Guildgate
■■■
Jungle Shrine
■■■■
Orzhov Guildgate
■■
Seaside Citadel
■■■■
Selesnya Guildgate
2
Forest
3
Plains
2
Swamp


Some key points:

1) unlike most, this deck actually CAN hang with early agro. In fact, you love to trade cards with them - doing so fills your graveyard faster, which is where you want basically every card to go.
2) it looks slow thanks to all the tap lands, but you actually don't mind thanks to all of the 2 drops.
3) Planar Cleansing is a necessity. Some tried to argue against it a long time ago, but they missed the whole point. You are happy to wipe the board. Once you do, THEN you start playing your enchantments. But even if you have to wipe them... you've still got treasured finds to bring them back.
4) tons of card draw, early staying power, can recuperate from wipes faster than most opponents (hell you even want the wipes sometimes), enough life gain (but not more than needed, because you have some early defense), no crappy cards (IMO), no weak turns (every turn you should be improving your board state, or completely destroying it, having played around doing so), and finally, all combo cards are strong on their own - except for Doubling Season, which is damn near the only card I might change in this build, but it wins so many games, and it's usually sitting in my graveyard for when I decide I need it, so I keep it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:06 pm 
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Needs more Craterhoof if you're playing Doubling Season/Seance combo. Did you consider Sheoldred or have you not revisited this deck since the new card packs were released?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Neither. The deck really has no cards I'd want removed. You don't need craterhoof, because by the time you'd play him, he is either win more or you don't have sufficient cards on the field for him to win it for you - the dream of a doubled token crater hoof sounds awesome, but I wouldn't build around it. Sheoldred, similarly does nothing that the deck isn't already doing well for less mana. I'd tutor for Seance, before I'd tutor for her.

Option 1: That said, I used to run 23 lands and Griselbrand for this deck, so I would totally support the very minor change of pulling one land and putting her in.

Option 2: which I'd totally support would be to remove both Doubling Seasons, and add both cards. It would be worth testing, IMO, but I just don't know if it would make much difference, because the main point of this deck is actually how it survives the early rounds. Once it gets past the early rounds it's pretty much GG against most opponents, making it more GG won't really change anything important.

Doubling Season is definitely the 59 and 60 th card of the deck.

Edit: Actually, come to think of it, Sheoldred really isn't a good inclusion, IMO. She has no ETB, if you bring her back with Seance, she does nothing.

In light of that, and what I said earlier about Craterhoof, I still maintain that this is the best 60 cards for this concept right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:44 pm 
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I think you're close but in my experience playing against Seance/Doubling Season combo, the scariest card was Sanguine Bond because it's a ton of direct damage.

And yeah Sheoldred does nothing except just win the game if she sticks. And double-Hoof is 18 trample damage on its own, it doesn't need support. If you have a single 1/1 in play then a double Hoof hits for 29 trample damage. And it doesn't cost any mana. The problem with Hoof is that if you draw it you're kinda angry about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:57 pm 
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Well exactly, I'd want to only keep cards that I want to draw, and hoof fails on that bill. (again, I think it's a possible candidate to replace the 24 th land).

Sheoldred has to be hard cast, none of the other creatures have that problem. I don't think she's that good in this deck. I'm not planning on casting 7 CMC cards here - although it does occasionally happen. Compare her to Rune Scarred - who could be hard cast for any of the hard answers in this deck - of which there are many - and is just as good if brought out by Seance. Sure she would have a massive effect if put into play, but unlike all of the other cards in this deck, she is useless from the grave.

Regarding Sanguine Bond - I'm sorry but you're flat out wrong. That card is terrible in this deck. You can not afford to blow a turn on that card at or around turn 5. If it comes out later, you should already be into the phase where winning is all but guaranteed - or in other words: it might look good, but it isn't good. I should also mention, there are only 7 cards in this deck that gain you life. Bond's value is completely dependent on having Seance in play - by which point in most cases it's just a win more card.

Doubling Season is much better, because it also enhances Angelic Accord while turning Seance into 100% inevitable win con (short of the opponent playing garbage enchant removal - in which case you will probably win another way), and even Season may not be worth inclusion.


Last edited by DJ0045 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Let's compare and contrast the perfect situation, which goes Turn 4 Seance, Turn 5? (Doubling Season or Sanguine Bond).

Doubling Season - allows you Every turn to double the ETB effects - this is huge, because it also provides you with near unbeatable amounts of defenders, while you finish setting up your board. Moreover, it all but guarantees your graveyard stays full with targets for the rest of the game.

Sanguine Bond turns your 7 life gainers into damage. That's great, but you will run out of cards in the yard, and probably before you can win. If you are in a position where you would have won it will get you there faster, but this deck already wins by flooding the board with Angels, what's the point of a second (less good, and less consistent) win con?

edit: and btw, Doubling Season enhances that win con - Bond sets up a secondary, weaker, win con

edit2: if I somehow had Bond in hand and any other enchant in this deck, other than playing a second Seance (which I forgot to mention earlier is a totally bad move, always hold that second card in hand kiddos) I would prefer the other enchants. E.g.: I would always play Angelic Accord or Doubling Season (a card I might consider dropping, given the right replacement) over Sanguine Bond. The other cards just have better synergy.

Yeah tl;dr sorry


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:28 pm 
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Doubling Season is only good here with Seance, it's very average with Angelic Accord because you only have seven lifegain cards as you mention. I think you're right about it being slots 59 and 60.

All the good Seance Season decks I've played against eschewed Necromancer's Assistant and instead played Sanguine Faithmender. I've never played the deck so I don't know what's actually "better". My Abzan is just a midrange deck with Angelic Accord and a tremendous lategame.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:38 pm 
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Yeah, I know - I'm late to the party here, but they've actually got it wrong.

Faith mender is again a fail in the Seance build - no ETB = tremendous disynergy

Now, on the other hand, I totally support Faithmender, and Sanguine Bond in the WB version - which is more of a pure life gain deck, and also quite powerful IMO. For Sanguine Bond to be worth having in your deck, IMO you must have life gain creatures, so that you can play it and swing for big damage. This means a totally different build from a Seance deck. Any card has to do something right away at 5CMC, or it isn't worth inclusion. Period. (the card Gestapo is now in effect, lol) - ex: board presence, immediate kill, shut down the opponent, huge damage, something. Not sit there and wait until next turn for something to happen.

Doubling Season - at least - could double your tokens on your opponent's turn if Seance is in play. That's immediate enough for me - but it's still kind of weak IMO. So yeah, 59 and 60 and waiting for a better replacement. (Maybe one for Hoof, I'm not convinced, but at least hoof has haste so I can grab it out of the GY for the kill)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:08 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
Still the best Abzan Lifegain - Reanimator deck around. I'm posting it, because despite coming up with this idea a heck of a long time ago, I've never actually posted it on NGA. Anyways:

[manapie 90 w -u b -r g][/manapie]

Doubling Seance

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (24 :creature: , 12 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 18 cards
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■■
Lone Missionary2/1
■■■■
Satyr Wayfinder1/1
■■■
Wall of Omens0/4
■■■
Treasured Find
Cost 4 cards
■■■■
Necromancer's Assistant3/1
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Angelic Accord
■■
Séance
Cost 2 cards
■■
Doubling Season
Cost 2 cards
■■
Planar Cleansing
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
■■
Rune-Scarred Demon6/6
Land24 cards
■■■■
Golgari Guildgate
■■■
Jungle Shrine
■■■■
Orzhov Guildgate
■■
Seaside Citadel
■■■■
Selesnya Guildgate
2
Forest
3
Plains
2
Swamp


Some key points:

1) unlike most, this deck actually CAN hang with early agro. In fact, you love to trade cards with them - doing so fills your graveyard faster, which is where you want basically every card to go.
2) it looks slow thanks to all the tap lands, but you actually don't mind thanks to all of the 2 drops.
3) Planar Cleansing is a necessity. Some tried to argue against it a long time ago, but they missed the whole point. You are happy to wipe the board. Once you do, THEN you start playing your enchantments. But even if you have to wipe them... you've still got treasured finds to bring them back.
4) tons of card draw, early staying power, can recuperate from wipes faster than most opponents (hell you even want the wipes sometimes), enough life gain (but not more than needed, because you have some early defense), no crappy cards (IMO), no weak turns (every turn you should be improving your board state, or completely destroying it, having played around doing so), and finally, all combo cards are strong on their own - except for Doubling Season, which is damn near the only card I might change in this build, but it wins so many games, and it's usually sitting in my graveyard for when I decide I need it, so I keep it.


This is basically my first Abzan deck to a T. Only difference is I did not run the triple lands since we didn't have them back then. Its scary how identical they are. :takei: I know I posted it on forums here too just not on this thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:21 pm 
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i ahd the same thing with my grixis deck. was exactly hakeems only difference was i rran 2 voyages end for inferno titan and banefire... we need origins asap!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:35 pm 
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HARBiNG3R wrote:

*snip*

This is basically my first Abzan deck to a T. Only difference is I did not run the triple lands since we didn't have them back then. Its scary how identical they are. :takei: I know I posted it on forums here too just not on this thread.


Well my original build was actually: Junk Reanimator

But I rapidly realized that Elvish Visionary was more important than a few extra ways to get creatures back from the grave. This is unchanged except -1 Griselbrand, -3 Rescue From the Underworlds +4 Elvish Visionarys

And you commented on it, but I wasn't on the board until about a month later.

BTW: The other version was a bit too reliant on having cards in the GY and way over curve IMO. This one gets you there with card draw almost every time.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:42 pm 
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aah... junk so many ways to build it but it's all the same


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Are we arguing over whose Junk is better?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:58 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Are we arguing over whose Junk is better?



Sounds dirty.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:06 pm 
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well I'm a girl so my junk is automatically superior right?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:56 pm 
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It's the absence of junk that makes you superior. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:02 pm 
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I need to stop using the forums while drunk o~o


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:59 pm 
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jeez no, drunk posts are the best.

but yes, you win by default

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:15 pm 
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woot I is win


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:47 am 
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well I'm a girl so my junk is automatically superior right?

Wait, what? Are you really a girl? Oh no, now I need to restraint myself from posting mean words and swearing, or making sexist comments... sigh...
(Just joking, OFC!... I'll never restraint myself from doing that! :D)


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