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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:44 pm 
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It's more about having eight enchantments that usually won't do anything the turn you play them. You can never draw too many cards!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:51 pm 
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That's what I meant. ;P

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Having a ton of draw simply ensures you'll always get on the draw train, and as your deck is nothing but creatures, and above the curve ones too, you'll want to be attacking with as much as you can every turn as you can afford the trades better, both through unequal trades and simply having more in the pipeline.

If you expect trades, then Military Intelligence is better than the Bident, as you draw cards without drawing blood, and are still rewarded for attacks that aren't a success. The Bident is better for smaller, evasive attacks that guarantee damage, while MI is better for larger assaults that won't deal damage as they demand to be blocked. I feel it's actually the weakest draw card here as a result (only for this deck - it's excellent otherwise), but included it to max out the draw frequency and because the second mode (making them attack you) is quite valuable.

Triumph is a great card, as it's one of only a few cards that's still effective in a stalemate. Rather than hoping for a top deck that will create a swing, you simply get more and more powerful the longer the board state remains unchanged (as long as you have the biggest creature of course) Almost every other card requires action to be effective. This is why every card doesn't need to make an immediate impact. As you're generally above the curve, you can afford to play a card that doesn't alter the field straight away, as it'll take your opponent a extra turn just to keep up with the P/T race, and by that time they're online.

Say I go:
1 - Cloudfin Raptor
2 - Satyr Wayfinder
3 - Brackwater Elemental

I'm then free to play Triumph on turn 4 as I have a 1/1, a 2/3 flier and a 4/4 down. Almost no other deck (Heroic maybe...) will have that level of power at that point, so I can afford a turn that does nothing immediately, as it will take them an additional turn to catch up. And when they do, I'm drawing cards that are either more creatures, or more draw, and just compounding the issue. All of those turn 1-3 cards are commons too, so this isn't an absurd play.

The deck isn't intended to be finished - it's just a proof of concept. Testing will whittle down what's working and what isn't. it's a deck that's either bombed or smashed face in the past, and I always believed the lack of Brackwater was the issue as there was never a decent substitute. When the DLC drops, I'll see if that's the case or not.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:06 pm 
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So, with the DLC I now have my final build for the aforementioned deck. And It's the first Simic deck in D15 I've actually felt satisifed with!

[manapie 90 -w u -b -r g][/manapie]

Wild & Moody

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (27 :creature: , 9 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Cloudfin Raptor0/1
■■■
Prey Upon
Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Satyr Wayfinder1/1
■■■
Military Intelligence
Cost 9 cards
■■■■
Brackwater Elemental4/4
■■
Chasm Skulker1/1
■■■
Cultivate
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Phantasmal Dragon5/5
Cost 5 cards
■■
Arbor Colossus6/6
■■■
Garruk's Packleader4/4
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Nemesis of Mortals5/5
■■
Terra Stomper8/8
Land24 cards
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
11
Forest
9
Island


The aim of the deck is to overwhelm your opponent with bigger creatures in greater numbers. The whole deck is full of above the curve creatures, creatures that can grow to match them, and draw and land fetch/ramp to fuel the engine.

The Skulker and Cloudfins provide early attack and defence, but grow as the game goes on, fuelled by casting creatures and drawing cards, which is fuelled by attacking and growing creatures, creating a nice feedback loop. The Wayfinders grab land, cheapen the Nemesis, and put Brackwaters in the graveyard, that can also trigger the Packleader.

The Brackwaters are key to the deck due to being above the curve and able to trigger Cloudfin and Packleader multiple times, as well as being big, disposable bodies that can be sacrificed for Prey Upons and Intelligence triggers. The Pioneer is also key, allowing you to cast larger than normal creatures even earlier, and allow you to play multiple lands as well as efficiently cast more creatures per turn when the draw kicks in.

No removal or counters as it isn't needed. Just pure aggression! For everything they kill, you just happily replace.


Last edited by Stevolutionary on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:00 am 
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No love for Terra Stomper? I think he's better than Soul of Zendikar easily and you could probably get away with just two Nemesis of Mortals because your graveyard subtheme is really minor. If your goal is "above the curve" then Stomper is conspicuous by his absence. I've played Soul a lot and he's always gotten cut, the ability is just too expensive so he's just a vanilla dude and Stomper is (IMO) a better vanilla dude. Dat trample.

I'm also not sold on Elvish Pioneer as a playable card and would rather just play Visionaries because they're a better topdeck, but I can see how they would help you apply pressure faster, which seems to be the gameplan. T3 five-drops are a beating.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:28 am 
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The Soul is great for three reasons.

1) Reach. This is vital. Not may things can face a Baneslayer and live. He can. I have no kill, so defence is important too.
2) He interacts with the graveyard and Satyrs and can often give me a beast for nothing, which is pure advantage if I have the mana free.
3) He's a repeatable Packleader trigger.

I understand Trample is good, but my strategy is to overwhelm generally with a mass of creatures. As I'm Simic, I'd have included Artful Dodge if I wanted to just push through, and It's always underperformed in the past when I've tried it. I could replace Pelakka with Stompers, and I really should, but I can be slow and the lifegain is great for those scenarios. The Nemesis are also vital. I can almost always cast them turn 4, which is the main purpose.

Pioneers, I normally hate, and simply threw in to test, but they've been a revelation here. Not only do they help get the above curve creatures out sooner, if drawn later when the draw engine is in full swing, they make sure I'm not getting clogged with land and can cast more fat creatures per turn on subsequent turns as my mana base is expanding at a good rate as well as my hand. Otherwise I used to get in a situation where I was drawing a ton of threats but could only cast 1 a turn, often being just 1 mana or so away from a second cast, but with a hand frustratingly full of land I had to wait to play. Sure, you can cast next turn, but then you draw even more cards that end up in a queue.

Having say 6 mana instead of 5 when the draw kicks in makes a major difference to the amount of creatures I can cast over the coming turns. At that point a Visionary is just a dead card as drawing isn't the issue - casting is. As I start slow, a 1 drop blocker is also a great benefit, which gives it the cut over Cultivate.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:59 am 
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You have Arbor Colossus for Baneslayers, and I don't see you getting a T4 Nemesis without a Wayfinder. I like Nemesis and I think Soul is playable, but Stomper is just a beating. No synergy, nothing flashy, just a massive beatstick.

Maybe I suggested the wrong cuts, but I really think Stomper should be in here. The deck is basically "just doods" with card draw to ensure you get to keep casting them. As far as "doods" go it's hard to find a more powerful one than him.

I think there's a lot of raw power here. Stomper is the king of that. And I wouldn't cut Wurms, they're too good. Two feels fine with all the draw power you have.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:37 pm 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Coming Soon...Arena!
Stevo,

I took your deck out for a spin for 10 games. Check out my results here.

Fun little deck you have there.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:46 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
Stevo,

I took your deck out for a spin for 10 games. Check out my results here.

Fun little deck you have there.


Thanks for testing it! :)

I've not been able to take it online yet due to the 360's MP being locked currently, so all my data is from SP only. I do expect to revise it once I can get online. It (like half my decks) is designed firstly as a proof-of-concept for a unique engine or archetype before being tailored down a super-optimal path, and pushes cramming synergy in over anything else so people can pick and choose elements they like if they wish. I want my decks to inspire ideas more than be simply copied verbatim to grind wins.

It's currently a little feast or famine in the current state though. You either get the draw going and crush them, or don't and stall and get run over. It needs to find a smoother and more consistent transition from the early game, to being able to hit its beats. I've made a few changes that I'm testing at the moment, and I think it's working better.

-4 Elvish Pioneer
+3 Cultivate

Because of my double and triple costs, I need dual lands, which the Pioneers couldn't use. I also found fetching and ramping was better than just ramp in order to press my above-the-curve advantage. Losing a chump is a minor issue, but as I can get bigger blockers down earlier now, that does compensate, and as I still have 27 creatures, losing 4 isn't too bad.

-2 Pelakka Wurm
-1 Soul of Zendikar
+2 Terra Stomper
+1 Phantasmal Dragon

Pelakkas are of course great, but they're on the curve, not above it, and without a way to abuse the ETB, they were included mainly as an admission of weakness - that I may need the life because I was too slow. By replacing them with quicker, big creatures (I now top out at 6CMC with the Stompers, but mainly at 5 otherwise) I can be dominant quicker and play more creatures per turn once the draw kicks in. With the Brackwater assault, I don't really need the beast generation of the Soul as attackers or Packleader triggers, and the additional Dragon covers the flying defence loss, but gives additional, evasive attack.

-2 Triumph of Ferocity
+3 Prey Upon

Triumph was a win-more card, and mainly benefited me if I had a large creature in a stalemate, so I could just sit and draw cards to break the deadlock. Prey Upon just breaks the deadlock immediately instead. Both are situational (require a large creature) but by pressing my advantage while I remain above the curve rather than waiting to allow my opponent to draw an answer, this works better.

I may alter the values of Prey Upon and Cultivate depending on what proves more useful (ramp or kill) but apart from that, the deck is approaching a finished state now I feel.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:10 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
You have Arbor Colossus for Baneslayers, and I don't see you getting a T4 Nemesis without a Wayfinder. I like Nemesis and I think Soul is playable, but Stomper is just a beating. No synergy, nothing flashy, just a massive beatstick.

Maybe I suggested the wrong cuts, but I really think Stomper should be in here. The deck is basically "just doods" with card draw to ensure you get to keep casting them. As far as "doods" go it's hard to find a more powerful one than him.

I think there's a lot of raw power here. Stomper is the king of that. And I wouldn't cut Wurms, they're too good. Two feels fine with all the draw power you have.


Stomper was the FIRST card I felt was missing! And my original thought was nemesis also. Then I thought nemisis could be great here for the above the curve factor and making the others get bigger faster. So it does make sense. I still feel stomper would be amazing to see here too. I would almost say I would want to see it over plekka as it is ABOVE CURVE too.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:27 pm 
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The deck is working so much better now with the changes I listed, and I feel it's in a final state. The Brackwaters are absolute houses and the key to the entire deck. I'll edit the list sometime tomorrow.

I originally substituted Wurms for Stompers, but I realised that's because the combo wasn't entirely working fluidly and I needed the life to compensate. Now it is, I don't need life and can concentrate on 100% being above the curve, and it works really well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:13 pm 
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I would like opinions on this deck:

10 forest
10 island
4 simic guildgate

4 void snare
4 think twice
4 nullify
2 dissolve
4 archaeomancer
1 time warp

4 elvish visionary
4 cultivate
2 mold shambler
2 arbor colossus
2 pelakka wurm

3 species gorger


When I don't get mana screwed, this deck has been annoying the **** out of people. :)

Lots of blue control. Some nice large green creatures. And even some self-bounce for 9 mana time warp loop or 6 mana repeating land destruction.

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Last edited by mjack33 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:40 am 
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Jack, dissolve is an uncommon. What else should be added for card #60?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:44 am 
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Actually counting 62 cards on your list. Is this intended?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Gave your evolve deck a go stevo and I am not really feeling it. I wanted to like this build. I feel cloudfin is best suited to an aggro approach.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:51 pm 
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I fixed the list from above. It's jsut 2 dissolve.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:19 pm 
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2bestest wrote:
Gave your evolve deck a go stevo and I am not really feeling it. I wanted to like this build. I feel cloudfin is best suited to an aggro approach.


Which build? Did you follow the link in the consortium, as that takes you to the most up to date one.

The deck, and the Raptor too, are both extremely aggressive in this deck. It's not meant to be played as anything other than stompy-smash! When I say 'early defence' I mean simply they can defend if needed as they're a low cost creature. I should have put the emphasis more on 'early' than 'defence'.

I've updated the OP to clarify.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:23 pm 
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So, with the DLC I now have my final build for the aforementioned deck. And It's the first Simic deck in D15 I've actually felt satisifed with!

[manapie 90 -w u -b -r g][/manapie]

Wild & Moody

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (27 :creature: , 9 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Cloudfin Raptor0/1
■■■
Prey Upon
Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Satyr Wayfinder1/1
■■■
Military Intelligence
Cost 9 cards
■■■■
Brackwater Elemental4/4
■■
Chasm Skulker1/1
■■■
Cultivate
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Phantasmal Dragon5/5
Cost 5 cards
■■
Arbor Colossus6/6
■■■
Garruk's Packleader4/4
Cost 5 cards
■■■
Nemesis of Mortals5/5
■■
Terra Stomper8/8
Land24 cards
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
11
Forest
9
Island


The aim of the deck is to overwhelm your opponent with bigger creatures in greater numbers. The whole deck is full of above the curve creatures, creatures that can grow to match them, and draw and land fetch/ramp to fuel the engine.

The Skulker and Cloudfins provide early attack and defence, but grow as the game goes on, fuelled by casting creatures and drawing cards, which is fuelled by attacking and growing creatures, creating a nice feedback loop. The Wayfinders grab land, cheapen the Nemesis, and put Brackwaters in the graveyard, that can also trigger the Packleader.

The Brackwaters are key to the deck due to being above the curve and able to trigger Cloudfin and Packleader multiple times, as well as being big, disposable bodies that can be sacrificed for Prey Upons and Intelligence triggers. The Pioneer is also key, allowing you to cast larger than normal creatures even earlier, and allow you to play multiple lands as well as efficiently cast more creatures per turn when the draw kicks in.

No removal or counters as it isn't needed. Just pure aggression! For everything they kill, you just happily replace.


This is the one I tried.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:47 pm 
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Ah, I'm not sure then. It's always worked well for me. :confused:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Wanted to make a deck that'd allow me to play Kozilek. This is something I threw together. I'm having a lot of fun playing with it.

Cultivate offers me some ramp. It can also trigger Talrand, Sky Summoner, which is obviously a plus.

Plenty of draw with Think Twice, Elvish Visionary and Inspiration.

Kraken Hatchling or Visionary are bait for Switcheroo. They also help slow your opponent's early attacks.

[manapie 90 -w u -b -r g][/manapie]

Simic

A deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (17 :creature: , 20 :instant: , 23 :land:)

Creature17 cards
■■■■
Kraken Hatchling0/4
■■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
■■■
Pelakka Wurm7/7
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth12/12
Spell20 cards
■■■■
Think Twice
■■■■
Voyage's End
■■■■
Cultivate
■■■
Dissolve
■■■■
Inspiration
■■
Switcheroo
Obelisk of Alara
Land23 cards
■■■
Seaside Citadel
8
Forest
12
Island


Edit: -4 Simic Guildgate +1 Obelisk of Alara +3 Seaside Citadel. Had a really hard time deciding between adding the Obelisk and Sphinx-Bone Wand. Decided it was okay to drop a mana due to my massive amount of card draw.


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