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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:20 pm 
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2bestest wrote:
elk wrote:
@ Hakeem

So further to my suggestion:

-3 Tribute to Hunger
-2 Rune Scared Demon (I see 2 "normal' fetch targets - Sheoldred, Shadowborn and then a handful of corner cases so I think the deck can survive without it and benefit from a lower curve)
-4 Phrexian Rager (I'm gambling on Pestermite being the better draw normally)

+4 Tidehollow Strix
+4 Pestermite
+1 Suffer the Past (for the spider decks or the Kozy's, treasured finds etc. Also the 'self mill' decks are real atm or artifact recursion since you played the deck this week and everyone copies your stuff for the next week or so)

elk


I think that Phrexian rager is greatly under appreciated as a black cantrip. Considering the options I feel it is a necessary evil for the cantrip as well as the body at the 3 cost spot. Not to mention it has added synergy with undying evil.

Rune scared I wouldn't cut here either. You want guys that can potentially close out the game alone if unchecked in the later rounds. Plus it can draw it undying evil to protect itself if your opponent still has a card in hand.


This about sums it up. I've updated the decklist here. That Mercurial Pretender slot is wide open and can be whatever you want it to be, but I feel the rest of the deck is pretty solid. It's not the greatest deck in the world but it does what it needs to do and can grind out wins. Just don't register it for your next tournament.

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
2bestest wrote:
elk wrote:
@ Hakeem

So further to my suggestion:

-3 Tribute to Hunger
-2 Rune Scared Demon (I see 2 "normal' fetch targets - Sheoldred, Shadowborn and then a handful of corner cases so I think the deck can survive without it and benefit from a lower curve)
-4 Phrexian Rager (I'm gambling on Pestermite being the better draw normally)

+4 Tidehollow Strix
+4 Pestermite
+1 Suffer the Past (for the spider decks or the Kozy's, treasured finds etc. Also the 'self mill' decks are real atm or artifact recursion since you played the deck this week and everyone copies your stuff for the next week or so)

elk


I think that Phrexian rager is greatly under appreciated as a black cantrip. Considering the options I feel it is a necessary evil for the cantrip as well as the body at the 3 cost spot. Not to mention it has added synergy with undying evil.

Rune scared I wouldn't cut here either. You want guys that can potentially close out the game alone if unchecked in the later rounds. Plus it can draw it undying evil to protect itself if your opponent still has a card in hand.


This about sums it up. I've updated the decklist here. That Mercurial Pretender slot is wide open and can be whatever you want it to be, but I feel the rest of the deck is pretty solid. It's not the greatest deck in the world but it does what it needs to do and can grind out wins. Just don't register it for your next tournament.


Is it just me or does that link not work properly? And is that statement about Mercurial eluding to the fact he has been included in YOUR list?!!

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:29 pm 
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Why do my links not work for people? Just copy the URL and I bet it would. FML.

And yes, I have a copy of Mercurial Pretender in a deck that I posted publicly. I am ashamed.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:36 am 
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Watch the skies for pigs..

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Hi again guys. How does everyone feel about Dinrova Horror? I'm experimenting with an entirely different Dimir build now that taps out a lot more. Things like Phyrexian Ragers, Brain Maggot, Pharika's chosen, and Undying Evil. I think it has potential, but it is radically different from the Counterspell heavy control build I've been messing around with.

As an aside, my original counter spell heavy Dimir build is now Grixis with trilands for Obelisk of Alara. If I ask anymore about it I will over in the Grixis thread. At this point I'm basically just tweaking a few cards and card numbers.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:59 pm 
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yeah the horror is great especially if they have no cards in hand then it's basically removal/LD


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Traveler's Amulet should be Think Twice for sure. You don't need that in a two color deck.

Graveborn Muse should be here.

If you're running discard.. a single Suffer the Past is a good call to disrupt graveyard decks (which are all the rage again) and to have it act as a big fat burn spell which can finish games.

I wouldn't run Roil Elemental if you paid me. The only players it beats are bad players.. good players always have an answer for it. I feel it's a terrible card.


Going to copy and edit my former deck with your suggestions. With the Think Twice, it will make sense to switch Roil Elemental out for Talrand, Sky Summoner.

Roil Elemental is definitely a hot target and an easy card to take out. I do not recommend casting this card unless the following conditions are met: having and being able to drop a land card for the take on the same turn when cast this card (don't wait until the following turn), and preferably having some sort of protection like an interruption or return to hand type of spell. Where I was going with this, the strategy, is to have the player empty handed at the 6 plus mana point (reduces the likelihood for him/her to be holding on to a removal type spell), then waiting until the other player drops a creature spell worth taking, take it, and swing for damage the next turn.

Being that this deck is light on creatures, Suffer the Past will not deliver enough damage for the win (do not anticipate sending more that 10 cards to the graveyard). The strategy will be to Negate/Dissolve/Nullify, which has worked well against graveyard retrieval type decks.

I could see Graveyard Muse adding value, and being that I have Tribute to Hunger to feed it life.

Kinda going on, so let me stop, overall these suggestions sound good, going to try them out and will get back hopefully sooner rather than later.

Thank you! :-)


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Your deck has 4x Vapor Snag.. you can't even make sure you have a bounce spell in your opening hand. Cards like Elite Vanguard are going to punish the hell out of you. Then.. you're going to want to tap out on turn 3 to play discards, now your counterspells are offline.. now an opponent can slip through a Goblin Rabblemaster, Rhox War Monk or some.other.horrid 3 drop. I really think, if you want to play discard, going with removal is a better option than going with counters IMO. Dead Weight, Shadowborn, and a few Flesh to Dust.. and most importantly, creatures that can block. Guard Gomazoa was huge for.me in my discard build.. and so was Phyrexian Rager as they can both block.


Dead Weight, totally overlooked this card, at 1 black mana cost (-2/-2) I see it working really well (will incorporate with your other suggestions). Surprisingly, a lot of decks do not run Elite Vanguard, or if they do, that creature is usually pumped up with Auras by turn 2/3, thus making it more valuable to send back to the owner's hand. Nevertheless, it and cards like it have delivered a great deal of damage when not addressed soon enough.

With respects to Goblin Rabblemaster (this is a very popular card) and other three mana nightmare drops, I plan to have enough interrupt type spells to take care of it (and not to leave myself closed out to discard) at turn three. If closed, should have a kickback spell, then interrupt the next turn, and followed by another discard, and so on.

Brain Maggot, what a gem that card is early on. I can see the other player's hand and then coordinate.

Not to sure about Shawdowborn or Flesh to Dust, they are a bit expensive, will consider and see how these cards work.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:48 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
C Eliza wrote:
The thing with the an aggro deck is that it runs pretty stale on turn 3 or 4, so if you can delay the aggro deck enough with Vapor Snag, Voyager's End, Nullify, and/or Negate on the second turn. Then on the third turn Mind Rot, and on the fourth turn again Mind Rot, bounce, or cast Lilian's Specter. Usually, after the fourth turn the ship is under control and it's smooth sailing to victory!


Agreed, but not against any agro deck either I or mega or any serious player would play. I'd either keep dropping threats, or my build has answers. You put rise from the grave in this meta and everything changes (not even that good), without it or something like it, this deck is just delaying the inevitable, or it's winning by a nose. It can't be dominant, because we lack the tools to make it truly dominant.

He was nice in his assessment, btw, because this deck gets totally hosed by Spider Spwaning, and many of the other similar concepts.

It's still a very good deck, it's not automatic loss against agro, but 2 out of 3 games it would lose, and badly. :-)

Edit: actually I don't agree. T4 is probably GG for some of the better agro decks. Far from a stale turn.


"… I or mega or any serious player would play…"
You trying' say I ain't be serious 'bout dis?! Dat's just plain ol' crazy talk.

"winning by a nose"
:thumbsup: Very good

"against agro..2 out of 3 games it would lose, and badly"
Why u lie?

Lol, just kidding.
Kinda ;)

In all seriousness, should retweek to incorporate other cards to deal with aggro. Will try and get back hopefully sooner rather than later. Beast made a couple of good suggestions, especially with Dead Weight.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:03 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
original version here: viewtopic.php?p=287194#p287194

updated to this:

[manapie 90 -w u b -r -g][/manapie]

Vapor Maggot v2.0

A deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (14 :creature: , 22 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Multicolored3 cards
■■■
Dinrova Horror4/4
Color 14 cards
■■■■
Vapor Snag
■■■■
Think Twice
■■■■
Voyage's End
■■
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
Color 19 cards
■■■■
Dead Weight
■■■
Brain Maggot1/1
■■■■
Liliana's Specter2/1
■■■■
Mind Rot
■■
Monomania
■■
Rune-Scarred Demon6/6
Colorless24 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■
Crumbling Necropolis
■■■
Opulent Palace
7
Island
8
Swamp


Explanation on the changes.

By adding some early draw, I can reduce my need for mana fixing (+4 Think Twice). This also allowed for more consistent early games, and more guaranteed card draw than (-2) Graveborn Muse or (-2) Indulgent Tormentor could (-2 Armillary Sphere). I switched out (-4) Void Snare for Dead Weight. Although this makes the deck far more vulnerable to non-creature permanents, it makes it far less vulnerable to all of the 2/2 creatures (the worst for this deck was Goblin Rabblemaster, but they were all tough in their own ways). Finally, I had two open slots left (at the top of the curve) so I decided to use Rune-Scarred Demon, because Demon, Demon, Horror should win most games.

The deck seems much improved of the original. It's still the same concept, but just a bit better at doing what it was trying to do, which is make Monomania a killer card, destroy the opponent's hand, and win by forcing them to play my game.

Major Weakness GY decks. A Spikier version probably loses monomania (of course, sigh), and gains Sheoldred and a single Suffer the Past. Edit: maybe Shadowborn instead of Suffer, so you get that combo possible.


From reading over this, very very good. A winner! :angel:
Really looking forward to playing this soon.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:15 am 
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It's pretty good with the change I wrote at the very bottom. E.g.: no monomania
If you want monomania, play the original build, without mind rot.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:14 pm 
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I've been working on my old Dimir Control list, and it's been getting quite a lot better. To start building the deck, first take a look at the strengths and weaknesses of each colour: Blue has solid early card draw and counter spells, making it the top control colour, and black has the highest value finishers in Rune-Scarred Demon and Griselbrand. With a combination of solid card draw and reliable finishers we don't have to devote many card slots to the late game, and we have a lot of free card slots to make sure we don't get run over early.

That said, both black and blue lack efficient early removal, and we don't have a wrath. In fact, I don't think a creatureless control is viable in Dimir; it's impossible to match our terrible removal options to reliably 1 for 1 an opponent. The deck I built is therefore a creature based control deck, utilizing high value early creatures and Undying Evil to protect them. Graveborn Muse is the star that makes this archetype valid. Guard Gomazoa and Agent of Fates protected with Undying Evil are extremely difficult for aggressive early decks to bypass. And Brain Maggot makes sure our opponent's hand doesn't match-up well against ours, lets us play around what we know they have, and can even serve as a fine blocker against the most aggressive decks.

Although I'm running Undying evil, I find Obelisks to be superior to more creature based threats. Tap lands are already a must, so we might as well run the tri-lands to use the better modes. With a single plains and 2 Traumatic visions, the deck has access to 6 white sources and 2 red sources, so an obelisk helps us stabilize early and can finish a game by itself much later on if necessary.

I'm undecided on Courier's Capsule vs Inspiration. Capsule lets us use all our mana early and can find us our 4th land if necessary, so it seems to fit slightly better than inspiration here.

ColorlessWhiteBlueBlackRedGreenAzoriusOrzhovBorosSelesnyaDimirIzzetSimicRakdosGolgariGruulEsperJeskaiBantMarduAbzanNayaGrixisSultaiTemurJundGreenlessRedlessBlacklessBluelessWhitelessRainbow

Dimir Control

A deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (13 :creature: , 22 :instant: , 25 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■
Dead Weight
■■■■
Undying Evil
■■■
Vapor Snag
■■■
Void Snare
Cost 11 cards
■■■
Brain Maggot1/1
■■■■
Courier's Capsule
■■■■
Nullify
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 8 cards
■■
Agent of the Fates3/2
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■■
Dissolve
Cost 2 cards
■■
Graveborn Muse3/3
Cost 3 cards
Shadowborn Demon5/6
■■■■
Traumatic Visions
Cost 2 cards
■■
Obelisk of Alara
Cost 1 card
Rune-Scarred Demon6/6
Cost 1 card
Griselbrand7/7
Land25 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■
Crumbling Necropolis
10
Island
1
Plains
9
Swamp


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:45 pm 
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The problem with Capsule is that it's sometimes difficult to play alongside counterspells. I personally think instant-speed is better almost all of the time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:59 pm 
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That's what I thought too until I actually tested it out. Look at it this way:

Turn 2-3: Capsule is far better because you have the option to play it. Sometimes you don't have counters and against some decks you know you won't need counters until later on. If you have only 2-3 lands it can prevent you from stalling out.

Turn 4: Inspiration is usually better because you can hold up dissolve. But if you have Nullify or think twice then they're roughly equal depending on the situation.

Turn 5: If you're holding Traumatic Visions (unlikely at this point, you either don't draw it or cycle it early.) Inspiration is better, otherwise Capsule is slightly better. If you've been holding cards and casting think twice vs control/ramp you might be about to discard. You can play Capsule to drop down to seven cards while still holding up dissolve, and wait on cracking it so you won't have to discard.

After this point you have enough mana that you should be able to work with either draw spell fairly effectively. If I was running more expensive instants in the deck I'd lean more towards inspiration, but I don't have stuff like resounding thunder or flesh to dust to hold up. A lot of the time I just want to leave 1 mana up for vapor snag or undying evil.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:57 pm 
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My deck!

ColorlessWhiteBlueBlackRedGreenAzoriusOrzhovBorosSelesnyaDimirIzzetSimicRakdosGolgariGruulEsperJeskaiBantMarduAbzanNayaGrixisSultaiTemurJundGreenlessRedlessBlacklessBluelessWhitelessRainbow

Dimir Discard

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (25 :creature: , 11 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Undying Evil
■■■
Vapor Snag
Cost 11 cards
■■■
Brain Maggot1/1
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Liliana's Specter2/1
■■■■
Phyrexian Rager2/2
Cost 3 cards
■■
Graveborn Muse3/3
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
Cost 1 card
Shadowborn Demon5/6
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Dinrova Horror4/4
Cost 3 cards
■■
Rune-Scarred Demon6/6
Sheoldred, Whispering One6/6
Land24 cards
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
8
Island
12
Swamp


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Do you still find opponents in 2015?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:00 am 
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DaRkStAr wrote:
Do you still find opponents in 2015?


yup, lots of us cant play duels on the ipad.... i'm finding an opponent every 10-15 seconds.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Dimir Discard

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (25 :creature: , 12 :instant: , 23 :land:)

Cost 4 cards
■■■
Undying Evil
■■
Suffer The Past
Cost 10 cards
■■■■
Think Twice
■■■
Peel From Reality
■■■
Brain Maggot1/1
Cost 11 cards
■■■
Guard Gomazoa1/3
■■■■
Liliana's Specter2/1
■■■■
Phyrexian Rager2/2
Cost 2 cards
■■
Graveborn Muse2/2
Cost 4 cards
Shadowborn Demon5/6
Mercurial Pretender0/0
■■
Rescue from the Underworld
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Dinrova Horror4/4
Cost 3 cards
■■
Rune-Scarred Demon6/6
Sheoldred, Whispering One6/6
Cost 1 cards
Griselbrand7/7
Land24 cards
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
9
Island
10
Swamp


Here the trick is to survive for a few turns, draw as much as you can, and two for one your opponent as much as possible. I prioritize landing the Rager over the Specter in the beginning in order to draw to ensure I hit every land drop and because forcing your opponent to discard on the third or fourth turn is more fruitful. Proper blocking is important, you can declare blockers with a Specter or Rager, then bounce it and an opponents unblocked creature. So you played your Specter, they discard, you block one and bounce one preventing two connections, then play the specter again to make them discard again. You had a two for one when you played the Specter assuming it will eventually take one card to get rid of it. Bouncing with the upside of playing your ETB creature again absolutely wrecks aura decks and one for one removal.

You can also bounce then Maggot, bounce then Specter, or Dinrova if you need some spot removal. Rescue from the Underworld is brutal here; declare blockers, kick your creature to the graveyard, then get two ETB effects off of one card.

Usually I'm tutoring the suffer the past because you are trading life in order to get in control of the match. The major weakness is token decks.


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