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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:35 am 
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I'm not willing to let Fred die before he's even had a chance to get in here and actually play.

Unvote, Vote: HW

Nor do I think PK necessarily needs to be the one to die right now either.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:42 am 
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Fair enough, if you refuse to acknowledge that psychology trumps logic in most human interactions I suppose I can't change your mind. I do see where you're coming from now, I just think that you are wrong in expecting humans to follow a program without fail or bias. Because in the end, that's what it comes down to. There are subtleties in timing and perception which cause people to react more strongly to certain things than others, which straight logic cannot account for. Those subtleties made Fred appear more scummy at the time, at least to some players (at least Neo and myself, maybe others too). It's a psychological reaction with a partial basis in logic, but it is not purely logical. And because of that, it tends to be inconsistent. That does not automatically invalidate it in my opinion, but I can accept that it does for you. And unless any part that changes your perspective, or you honestly feel that you can change mine, I think we are finally done with this absurd tangent.

Thank you, by the way! You gave me a reason to engage with the game during D1. I needed that. I hope there are no hard feelings, I feel like I got unnecessarily aggressive at times.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:57 am 
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I wouldn't say psychology trumps logic or logic trumps psychology. Everything goes hand in hand in some fashion. But that's not the issue here at all for me. It's not that I am expecting Neo to act in a preset way. It's more along the lines of Neo picking and choosing when to apply his principles rather than just applying them all the time. Or, to put it in other words, you don't have faith for just a moment because you want something. That's not how it works. There's something more fundamental than that though at work between you and I, and that has to deal with how we view Neo. I view him as scummy for the act as I see an ulterior motive to picking and choosing how he applied his (insert appropriate word -- principles?); however, you do not view Neo as having an ulterior motive, thus you see no issue with how he approached Fred. From there we just duke it out.

Fred appearing scummy because of subtleties (I assume, and I'm sure we can agree on this, it has to do with him voting in his second post on PK) is something I don't agree with fundamentally. Earlier you threw at me that people make mistakes, people have lives to attend to outside the game, etc etc. This, should, apply to Fred just like it applies to the people you are saying should be excused from "missing" HW and Rag's postings. I see no reason why you, given this, expect that Fred should have had a well developed understanding of the game immediately after he confirmed he was present in the game (a one minute difference mind you).

But yes, you and I, long ago, reached the end of this argument. With that being said, no, there are no hard feelings. It is, after all, just a game. I'm not Ahylis.

:V


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am 
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For posterity's sake:

Town
----------
Arrgh
---
Rag
Sky*
Dusky*
PK
Fred
---
HW
Shock
Neo
-----------
Scum

Off the top of my head this is how I'd list my feelings concerning everyone in the game thus far.

Due to my extended argument with Arrgh, I'm comfortable with him quite likely being town compared to the rest of the players in this game.

Fred is more of a true neutral to me for reference. So far, if I had my way, I'd want to see Neo or Shock lynched. I won't cry over HW's death though as there isn't enough content from him to make me feel he needs to live over PK. Nor do I think HW should have the chance to continue over Fred having a chance to try (HW squandered his chance to be meaningful as far as I am concerned).

Despite Rag's content, Rag is continuing to be active vs ignoring the game as mafia. This is purely meta though and can certainly change with how tomorrow develops.

[*]As for PK, Dusky, and Sky, PK and Sky are possibly interchangeable for me. Possibly. PK seems to have taken a backseat after Sky poked me, and Sky continued engaging others. Actually, now that I type this, I'm actually ok with placing Sky over Dusky as I can't honestly say Dusky has been all that impactful in some way wrt to my outlook on the game. Rather than Sky and PK being interchangeable for me, make that Dusky and PK.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Final Vote Count:

Fred: PaK, Neo, HW
PaK: Rag, Shock, Fred
HW: Dusky, Skystone, Aaarrrgh, KoD


And so the world didn't return HW's greeting, but instead said goodbye. HW is dead. It is now night. Night will end Saturday, 1200 EST.

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Last edited by 15377 on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Also Shock has been exiled from the game.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Would have liked a reminder that the end of the day was coming tbh.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:31 pm 
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i don't know that i'd describe myself as active

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Nvm, there was one, it just fell in the wrong day.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Oh, well in that case I'll reconsider you.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:54 pm 
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I'm just on my phone right now so here's the basics to get day started. PaK has been killed. Shock has returned to the game. Go forth and day.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:49 pm 
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No flips is slightly annoying. At least we can assume PaK was/is town.

@shock: did you do that yourself, or do you know what happened to you?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:17 pm 
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First and foremost, @mod: can we get a prod on Fred and anyone else that was lacking?

Secondly, we had three people voting PK: Rag, Shock, and Fred. Of these three, something happened to Shock (he flickered it looks like). I doubt there is a connection between that and PK's death (I thought this at first, but if he's exiled from the game, then I doubt he'd be targeting PK to kill). The only exception to that would be a card that is like, "when it enters the battlefield, destroy some target," etc etc. I'm not saying that is what happened though mind you.

PK could have been targeted because someone wanted him dead (which, honestly, would point to those voting him). Course maybe someone just wants attention on those voting PK and accomplished this by killing PK.

Without some kind of information to give us a little direction, we're going to be swinging blindly to an extent.

Pretty much right now I'm at the whole, "Why PK," thinking stage though. PK joked at the start and got serious with someone. I'll check his post progression after I complete this post, but I'm pretty sure PK progressed something like this: joke posts, joke post/vote on Shock, more joke posts, stops jokes and is bored so decides to be serious, [I draw a blank right here], he threw a vote on Freddeh scum (fred was not present at the time), and I believe that's all PK did.

brb while I check


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:49 pm 
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PK
Quote:
Shock: trying hard to make something out of nothing

Rag: confirmed town until bored

Kod: uhhh, probably just kod but maybe scum, idk

Hello: bandwagons a person who literally says the word haunter over and over again

vote: hello


Quote:
Rag you should target skystone with your ability

KoD and Rag leaning town

No opinion on Shock

Hope KoD doesn't read me scum because of the huge time neg

Scumread on Fred for obvious reasons Unvote: Hello, Vote: Fred


These are the two meaningful posts I found from PK. The others, that I am not quoting, are pretty much, "Game is boring, but I made it not boring; also, Rag will die going at me so here is what will happen just so we have it out of the way." That is, he responded to Rag about Rag voting him, and he talked about the game being boring to both Rag and Sky. I, personally, don't find anything about those posts to be revealing, but these two that I have quoted I feel give some direction.

Note regarding Skystone


PK was actually quite active as far as contributing stuff. Rag said PK was softclaiming, PK was like wth. Then there was a conversation about why Shock was voting PK due to "bringing up bussing" since PK felt like Shock forced that vote. (Around this time Fred shows up and votes PK for obvious reasons.)

PK put forth this post:

Quote:
The game state is atrocious

Shock, if you had a bullet that could kill me and only kill me d1, would you use it

Fred, your opinion on shock

Neo, is Ragnarokio acting pro town this game


That post makes me wonder. By the way this is PK's last post in the game (at least I'm pretty certain it is -- what follows is the whole argument between Arrgh and I over Neo voting Fred).

Anyway, the main thing I noticed is that of the people asked questions by PK, one answered (Shock). Fred, obviously, never responded. Neo, on the other hand, was active. He responded to a previous post (my question that was aimed at him) since he didn't have much time. For those not familiar, his response to my question was to distinguish between myself and Fred when it came to defending why he voted Fred. What I find notable is that after many hours passed, Neo makes a point to come back several more times to the thread, but never to respond to PK's question. It was always to comment on what was going on regarding attention that was on him. It is almost as if he only cared about the attention he had on himself from just me (after all, I was the only one to vote Neo).



Disregard
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minor change in focus now. In PK's post, he asked Shock a question regarding if Shock could use one bullet to get rid of him, would he? Perhaps the death on PK was to throw suspicion on Shock (but that doesn't make sense since Shock was removed from the game and, short of being on the mafia team, they wouldn't know Shock would come back -- nor would they want to throw suspicion on their own teammate so that can't be it).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm pretty much back to looking at Neo due to the above (not the disregard part). To me, it certainly looked like Neo was just looking for anything to stick his vote on while not looking bad for doing so (ie. Sky had commented on this prior to the entire argument going the way it did -- maybe Neo wanted to cut off any suspicion by responding to it). In light of Neo focusing only on himself and ignoring PK's question, I'm left with thinking that Neo is likely to be scum as he's demonstrated, imo, to not act like how a town player would act (ie. how he voted, then ignoring a question directed at him from one player while focusing on making small posts that dealt only with himself).

Vote: Neo


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:16 pm 
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@Aaarrrgh: All I say about it is I can't control it... Cautiously entering or exiting.

Either way some reading and catching up to do.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:24 pm 
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My 4th attempt at posting... apparently the boards hate me and I keep getting error messages.

Anyway, was wondering if Shock got exiled to prevent him from using a night ability, but I think his post implies he is the origin of the ability, so it most likely works as a protection from night kills. (But perhaps it can also be used during the day - unknown).

One thing I also meant to mention (but KoD beat me to it by now) is PK's post towards Shock, about the one bullet. Ominous. It now feels like it was a veiled hint / demand, but then that would only make sense if he had known about abilities and that doesn't make much sense either.

I am sad to see no alignments revealed.

KoD: I agree PK was most likely town, but we shouldn't ignore the possibility of a vigilante or other effect that could have killed him. (Unlikely I guess since there was no other hit, but we can't be 100% certain yet).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Oh, forgot:
KoD: I agree with your point on PK and Skystone. I don't think he was seriously proclaiming Skystone town, just said that in response to Skystone approving of the 'wondrous' Poke sounds.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Dusky
Quote:
KoD: I agree PK was most likely town, but we shouldn't ignore the possibility of a vigilante or other effect that could have killed him. (Unlikely I guess since there was no other hit, but we can't be 100% certain yet).


I can't begin to express how obvious that is to point out.

But for the sake of argument, how about this. Let's not rule it out then. How do you propose going about acting on this course? Perhaps the vig would like to claim? If it was another effect that we are all unaware of, then we won't know until it happens again, will we?

I find focusing on scumhunting is the best course. But I'll be sure to keep every possibility in mind, of course.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Shock
Quote:
Either way some reading and catching up to do.


What reading/catching up exactly? All of yesterday was pretty much Arrgh and I arguing. The rest you were present for.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:04 am 
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Dusky
Quote:
One thing I also meant to mention (but KoD beat me to it by now) is PK's post towards Shock, about the one bullet. Ominous. It now feels like it was a veiled hint / demand, but then that would only make sense if he had known about abilities and that doesn't make much sense either.


This is a gem.

Because it rubs me the wrong way.


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