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Who should ADVANCE to the finals?
Poll ended at Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:30 pm
razorborne 64%  64%  [ 7 ]
Rubik 36%  36%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 11
Total voters : 11
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Welcome to the fourth installment of Pro Tour: You Make the Card, the spiritual successor of You Make the Card Idol from years past, and the most prestigious fantasy fantasy card design contest to have ever graced these forums! This is your chance to test your skills as a Magic: the Gathering card designer against those of the rest of the forum, and prove you're a master of innovation, elegance, flavor, and other hallmarks of excellent card design. Take the crown in this contest, and you'll join the ranks of the YMTC legends, including Ephemeron, tyranno6, zammm, Dream Spinner, and others, and be immortalized in YMTC history.

Contest Details
Top 4
Semifinals Pairings
Semifinals Criteria
razorborne's Submission
Rubik's Submission

Voting ends February 2/5 at 7:30 PM Central Time. I will hold my vote until the end in case if a tiebreaker is needed. Good luck, razorborne and Rubik!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Razor's got a more beginner friendly set of cards. Rubik's got the more interesting walker.
I think flavour text would have been a simpler way to achieve Razor's teaching goals for Olek's Warden.
Favour The Bold doesn't curve into the planeswalker, which dampens the fun somewhat.

I'm leaning Razor, but can envision myself being swayed.
I guess the big question is just what level of complexity should we be aiming for?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:46 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
I think flavour text would have been a simpler way to achieve Razor's teaching goals for Olek's Warden.

I mean, I disagree, flavor text is a really bad way to teach new players. it can be a good way to teach intermediate players, but you need enough context about how the game works in order to get any real mileage out of non-mechanical teaching tools.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:36 am 
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When I was reading razor-s entry, I was sure I was going to vote rubik, but after reading rubik I was like "wow, they both failed in making cards that were harmless for standard play".

Voted rubik because the only card that seems really good is the common creature, destroy a creature and draw a card at 3 mana, even with two serious drawbacks, seems a bit too generous tho.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:00 am 
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Probably not going to vote, but razor has the planeswalker I somewhat like looking at most mechanically of the entries.

Just personal preference.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:39 am 
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Razorborne's Entries:
Pros:
These feel firmly green, and mostly Treefolk like. I get the "roots and branches and angry forest" vibe from most of them. Olek is a good planeswalker, as getting a 5/5 for 6 mana is only a bit below rate for a common, and if this survives a turn you can get two of them for a total of 10/10 of creatures, which is at-rate for a rare 6-mana creature. Survive three turns and you can starting making 5/5's for 4 each turn, which is very powerful. Getting three useful cards from the Rare is very much, somehow, feeling like "this forest is coming alive and is coming at me", which is cool, and very powerful. A mana dork for 2 is totally at rate, and beefing up to a 4/4 maybe later is serious business. Lastly, a 4/5 defender for 4, but spend another 4 to lose defender permanently, is again something that says "this forest is coming alive and is coming at me". So definitely a lot of hits in terms of the cards being something I'd be excited to play with and feeling like "wow, I got some power here" in draft.

Cons:
Unfortunately for razor, I have a LOT of issues with these cards. First, I don't care that Miracle did it, it's still not a good idea. Miracle did it because it couldn't work any other way, but this can, and so it should. It should be allowing you to look at the card, you may reveal it if its a land and putting it onto the battlefield, or else drawing it. The result is the same (you see, they don't), but it helps prevent cheating or even accidental cheating. Secondly, I really don't care for "create a tapped 5/5 green Treefolk token" because, usually, entering the battlefield tapped is a black drawback. This work with the theme these cards have, so there's at least some justification for it, but I still don't like it. Entering tapped is out of the ordinary, and for an entry product it would have been cleaner and easier to just make a 5/5. Eyes Among the Trees does a LOT for 5 mana, getting you potentially 3 cards, but even still getting you two cards in a regular game. Normally the Planeswalkers printed in the Planeswalker decks are also released as a more competitive version in the set released alongside them, so the chances of this being an amazing "find 3 cards", in green, is high. To put this card's power in perspective, I'll ask a rhetorical question, "Would you pay more for Harmonize if it meant you could guarantee you draw a land, a creature, and a planeswalker?" One thing I think you kind of hit on for your Uncommon is how it feel more like Werebear, which is a great callback to do, but I think could have been left as a non-treefolk character to show the other types of folks Olek maybe cares about. Note that Werebear also doesn't cause you to lose the mana production, which I think is a strange thing to get rid of here, since losing abilities isn't very green, is complicated for an entry-level product, and shouldn't make that much of a difference by the time it's active. Lastly, the Defender tree that loses Defender. Again, I think having something that breaks some of the most consistent rules in the game (that effects are generally not permanent without a counter to remind players of them) is something you don't want to do at common. Making your Common be a vanilla 5/5 for 5 to blend in with the Planeswalker's abilities would have been the smarter choice here.


Rubik's Entries:
Pros:
I think I get the flavour; she's a gambler, but is also able to put down some muscle. I think this is a good direction for another blue/red planeswalker, and I love that the blue/red colour pair (as an overall observation, not direct to this entry) can encompass so many protagonists. The abilities are definitely blue/red, do some good and cool things, but don't feel overpowered at all, which is a good spot for this entry-level product. Favor the Bold (which I keep reading as Flavour the Bold; guess she likes Doritos) is a fine 3-mana kill spell that will kill most, though not all, creatures, and requires your opponent to have multiple creatures to guarantee you hit the right one. The "coin flip" randomness shouldn't take too long to do, but you still are killing one enemy, so that's probably okay, even if a bit weak. However, for 3 mana, you're also finding a Varra planeswalker or getting her back from your graveyard, so even if you hit the wrong creature, you're not in terrible shape. I love the flavour on the Dicers, and the idea of dropping dice from high up. Sure the abilities don't care about that, but they don't always have to, and being better with Varra around (drawing more cards) is just showing their connection to her. Lastly, Varra's Enforcer is a fine 2/1 for 2 with a relevant EtB. This card makes me think that Varra runs the casino, rather than is just a gambler, but overall it seems nicely straight up and down.

Cons:
As mentioned, these are a bit more bland than the other entry, but I don't find that a problem at all, since the cards need to function within a deck more than cause jaws to drop, which I think these cards do. Still, technically a con, so it's over here. I also think the ultimate for Varra could've been better, as for a beginner product I wouldn't want to have to be keeping track of whom owns which cards that I control, especially when you might switch cards back again. Favor the Bold maybe could've had a better fail-case too, or maybe a Browbeat effect instead of random to keep the game moving more quickly. It's a fine card, but for some reason doesn't feel elegant.


Decision:
Rubik gets my vote. The cards tell a slightly better story, as this is a character with hopes and dreams, but also fears and weaknesses, which is more compelling. The cards are also designed more with beginners in mind than razor's, which is a prime consideration for the challenge. The cards also feel less like something that will see Standard or Cube Draft play, which these cards (as they aren't printed in the regular sets) shouldn't be powerful enough to warrant consideration in standard play.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Yarium wrote:
First, I don't care that Miracle did it, it's still not a good idea. Miracle did it because it couldn't work any other way, but this can, and so it should.
you're right, it should have a longer, weirder wording in order to maintain the exact same functionality, both mechanically and practically. good call.

Yarium wrote:
Normally the Planeswalkers printed in the Planeswalker decks are also released as a more competitive version in the set released alongside them, so the chances of this being an amazing "find 3 cards", in green, is high.
the first part is true but irrelevant, because the card (like other, similar cards in these products) doesn't search for a planeswalker of that type, it searches for a planeswalker with that name. it can't find other Oleks.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:38 pm 
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It reminds me of coiling oracle.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:30 am 
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Less than 24 hours until the polls close!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:38 am 
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Congrats, Raz!

Look forward to seeing what you design in the finals.

:duel:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:00 am 
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Congrats, razorborne! And excellent work by Rubik throughout the contest as well.

Finals will be up tonight.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:01 am 
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Or not last night. Life is crazy right now. I'll update you guys soon.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:40 am 
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Or not last night. Life is crazy right now. I'll update you guys soon.

take your time, the longer we wait for the criteria the longer I can pretend I'm not gonna get absolutely steamrolled by Johnny.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:39 pm 
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razorborne wrote:
Or not last night. Life is crazy right now. I'll update you guys soon.

take your time, the longer we wait for the criteria the longer I can pretend I'm not gonna get absolutely steamrolled by Johnny.

:duel:

Q, don't worry, take your time, life is crazy over here too. If you have to take like up until/through the weekend, that's cool with me

:duel:, don't pretend that this Pro Tour finals isn't gonna be the most close, tense, tooth-and-nail finals matchup in Pro Tour history. Tales will be told down the ages of this Pro Tour YMTC 4 Finals round

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:09 am 
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:duel:, don't pretend that this Pro Tour finals isn't gonna be the most close, tense, tooth-and-nail finals matchup in Pro Tour history. Tales will be told down the ages of this Pro Tour YMTC 4 Finals round

seems statistically unlikely, the finals for PT1 were decided by a single vote.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:24 am 
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This one is gonna be decided by half a vote


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